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Mr. Reid.] Well, sir, we ask you taking the matter to a point- we ask you as representing Her Majesty's Government to be equally kind, to be as kind to us as Japan is willing to be. Japan is willing to be so kind to us that she without any complaint enables us to have full power of excluding the Japanese, a certain class of labourers, whether right or wrong. Now we ask Her Majesty's Government as representing the Indian Empire to be as considerate in view of the fact that we regard this as a matter vitally affect- ing the character of our civilisation and race.
The Secretary of State.] You must bear in mind that all our discussions have hitherto turned upon the desirability of some sort of preferential treatment of the Empire, recognising privileges to British subjects all over the world which we do not recognise in the case of foreigners, and coming as it does this undoubtedly would be a great inconsistency.
Sir John Forrest] We did not include Indians.
Mr. Kingston.] Never.
Sir John Forrest.] We never intended to include Indians.
Mr. Reid.] No, never.
Sir Hugh Nelson.] You cannot engage labourers there except through the Government in India, I understand.
The Secretary of State.] I think we could easily deal with the question of engaged labour, and of course you could deal with that also.
Sir Hugh Nelson.] The Governments agreed about that when they began.
The Secretary of State.] As I have said, there are many ways in which anything like a concerted emigration of Indians to Australia could be prevented by the two Governments working together; that there is no doubt about, and I should not take serious objection-although I should possibly regret it, I should be bound to regret it--but still I should not take serious objection to further legislation to exclude ignorant Indians or ignorant Indians as defined in the Natal Act.
Sir Hugh Nelson] Those would be Indians who found their way to the Colony at their own expense.
The Secretary of State.] At their own expense.
Mr. Reid.] It would be a great disappointment to Australia if we found Her Majesty's Government as regards her coloured subjects less disposed to meet our wishes than the Japanese Government.
The Secretary of State.] I do not think we are, Mr. Reid.
Mr. Reid.] The difficulty is the same. There is a radical point, and all these contrivances do not meet that point. We stand or fall on a radical point with the people out there who know the circumstances of the country and the dangers to which we are exposed. We in Parliament assembled have taken up this position, and viewing the matter in this light, we ask you to give us full credit, as I know you always do, for acting with a certain amount of discretion, and we really feel, acting in that spirit, that this great danger requires to be treated not in detail, but treated as a broad principle of Australian development and in such a form that it is unmistakeable, and that it sets up a wall for ever against this danger which we consider to threaten us, to threaten us hourly and daily, and since there seems to be so little active opposition from the quarters we feared would be actively hostile, I say again and I thank you so much for listening to me at such length- I say again in conclusion that it would be a matter of the deepest possible regret to us all in Australia, (and I think I may say that, anticipating my fellow Premiers only in that one sentence,) a matter of the deepest possible regret to us if our wishes were not met at this time, when it seems that the surrounding circumstances are so auspicious for attempting a momentous step, which step might be taken later on under circumstances which would expose the mass of Indians to infinitely more pain and anxiety. Let us
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suppose, for instance, that some cause of quarrel arose between Her Majesty's Government and a country like Japan and that this question came up again at such a time; it is easy to see that at such a time all sorts of difficulties might beset Her Majesty's Government on a question of this sort which happily at the present moment do not exist. I strongly press upon you that once done it is done for ever; the time is favourable to its being done without active opposition in powerful quarters, and having once acquiesced there can be no complaint afterwards. I again apologise for speaking at such length to you, but it is a matter to which we attach great importance.
Sir E. N. C. Braddon.] I may say, sir, from my own long experience in India, that I recognise that the Indians are the coloured aliens who more than any other we would desire to exclude. I cannot speak of them entirely as aliens, because 280,000,000 of them are British subjects. While I say that, I think that if we adopted the spirit of the Natal Act we should secure what we want; that is to say, that under that educational test we should exclude anybody, any British subject, who would be likely to come from India, the great bulk of the 280,000,000 in India, I suppose it is 270,000,000, speaking roughly, are people who could not stand that test, and of the remainder no one, or very few would think of coming to any British Colony; Ranjitsinhji might come. I do not know any other who would come as a visitor.
Sir Hugh Nelson.] As a visitor?
Sir E. N. C. Braddon.] Therefore, if we can attain what we desire without in any way embarrassing the British Government, we would be very well satisfied. As far as Tasmania is concerned we should get more by the Natal law than we propose to get by the Bill we passed; that Bill, being in line with the Chinese Restriction Act, excluded British subjects from the operation of it, and excluded therefore the very people that I should like to see shut out. Mr. Kingston.] I think I recollect having the advantage of being present at the Chinese Conference in Sydney in 1888, and then we were particularly impressed with the importance of extending the Bill to British subjects, because as regards the previous legislation applying chiefly to Chinese, with exemptions in favour of British subjects, and naturalised persons with certificates of legal naturalization, there was wholesale evasion, and it seemned to us that a Hong Kong Chinaman who was a natural-born British subject was equally objectionable from the Australian point of view to Chinamen from another quarter. It seems to us also that there is very little' difference between a Chinaman and an Indian coolie as far as sentiment is concerned. What we do want is a white Australia, and the exclusion We would of the introduction of anything in the shape of servile races. be happy indeed-speaking for myself to put the matter in the least objectionable way so far as the Imperial authorities are concerned, so Undesirable have already an long as it is equally effective, but we Immigrants Restriction Act, but it does not apply to a case of this sort. and it does seem that we cannot deal with this difficulty without speaking plainly what we desire to do. What we desire to keep out are the coloured races, and I am sure, sir, that if England were similarly situated with reference to these other countries as we are the desire would be equally strong here as it is in Australia, and I do trust that advantage may be taken of what has been pointed out by Mr. Reid of this very favourable opportunity of conceding a principle which will be very gratefully received in Australia, and I am sure will operate to the benefit of the best sentiments towards the Empire throughout Australia.
Sir George Turner.] I may say, Mr. Chamberlain, that the feeling is equally strong in Victoria that we ought to prohibit the entry of these undesirable persons. We have not passed a Bill up to the present time, but it was agreed to at a conference held by representatives of the various Colonies that a When the measure on these lines should be introduced into each Parliament. Bill was originally drafted it was thought by the Commissioner of Customs who dealt with the matter to be too wide in the expressions, and com- munications had to take place between the various Colonies in order to have
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