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you are going to strangle the industries which you induced us to establish.' To meet that difficulty we say, "We will not interfere with the existing duties as far as British imports are concerned, but we will increase those duties as against foreign imports." That is something which might be favourably considered in the view of my Government.
The Secretary of State.]
It would certainly raise the same question, though in rather a different way.
Of course in rather a less favourable way. Sir Wilfrid Laurier.] It seems to me that Sir George Turner's proposal is practically the same question put in a different form. It is the same thing. The Secretary of State.] It is. It raises again the question of a prefer- ence given to the mother country, and, of course, I need not say an offer of that kind, I mean from any of the other Colonies, would materially strengthen the claim to have the treaties denounced, because then it would not be one colony alone that offered this preference, but it would be a general movement on the part of many Colonies.
Mr. Reid.] Do we understand from you, sir, that there is any proposal from the other Colonies? The tariff in New South Wales is a very small one, only about a dozen articles, and I feel that cannot take a very prominent part in this particular discussion.
Sir Wilfrid Laurier.] But, Mr. Reid, it is contemplated at this moment that the Australian Colonies will confederate. That is to be hoped, I think, that they should confederate. If they confederate, and if their arrange- ments come into force, say in the course of the next 12 months, whatever be the tariff of New South Wales at the present time there will be a general tariff for the confederation of Australia; and I imagine that that tariff, so far as I understand it, must be on the lines of a customs tariff. The revenue must be a customs revenue. Very well. Do you see that under such circumstances if you go into confederation you will have to devise a general tariff for the first time. The revenue is largely made up of customs duties. Do you not think that it would be admirable to do what Canada has done, to levy your revenue by a general tariff, and then to give a preference in favour of British goods.
Mr. Reid.] I can give a very simple answer to that. When the Colonies confederate I will try hard for a tariff such as that which we have in New South Wales. I do not know that I will win. If I do not win, and if a tariff is formed, much more ample than the lines of the New South Wales tariff, I have no hesitation in saying that I would throw the whole weight of my influence into the scale in favour of imitation of the Canadian policy.
The Secretary of State.] Mr. Seddon, will you tell us what you feel in regard to New Zealand ?
Mr. Seddon.] Yes. In the first place, I have no hesitation in saying that New Zealand considers the treaties hamper it and are burdensome. We say with respect to these now, that there is a departure from that well-known rule which has been conceded to us, namely, that nothing shall be done by the Imperial authorities that will hamper us in our fiscal relations. On that ground we say that the treaties should be denounced; if to-day such treaties were proposed, we could not enter- tain them; they were passed at a time when the circumstances were much different from what they are now; and standing as they do in the way, and preventing as they do the advance of the Colonies, they ought to be dealt with as probably gentlemen would like to deal with them, and as Canada has dealt with them. Mr. Reid has raised the question; on that, of course, I differ with him. New South Wales could not give anything more than she has given, but New South Wales has given to the world the same as she aas given to the Empire, and New South Wales to-day is the dumping ground of all the foreign-made rubbish throughout the world, and of course, through New South Wales, part of that rubbish is distributed to the other Colonies.
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Mr. Reid.] I do not want to interrupt Mr. Seddon, but it is hard to remain silent when those observations are being made, because if so, England is in a similar position, and if she remains in as good a position as she is to-day, no one can well be dissatisfied.
Sir George Turner.] England is a manufacturer.
The Secretary of State.] I think we had better hear Mr. Seddon.
Mr. Seddon.] At all events it is admitted by your own Colony; it is admitted by the other Colonies, and the information supplied to the Imperial authorities shows beyond doubt that there is a large increase in the various foreign manufactured goods which are being disposed of in the Colonies.
Mr. Reid.] British.
Mr. Seddon.] Not in New South Wales, and it is only in Victoria where you have passed some law which is on the same lines as the Merchandise Marks Act here. Other Colonies, I think, have not such a law; there is no such restriction, no such protection given to the public of the Colonies as there is given here to the British public.
Mr. Kingston.] In South Australia they do.
Mr. Seddon,] I do not think they do so in New South Wales, and I admit that there is no such in New Zealand. At all events I say, on the part of New Zealand, that if the treaties are denounced, and not to hamper the Imperial authority, I think it would leave them open to do as they like with foreign nations. As to the treaties of a recent date, the Colonies have been consulted, and I think in all cases we should have the right of controlling our own position. And not only do I think that they should be considered now, but by the Act passed by the Imperial Parliament it is there ruled that we have no power as between ourselves, and in my reading of those speeches it would appear from that debate that they had already entered into a contract notwithstanding the treaties that they give us so far. I come to another phase of the question which was mentioned by Mr. Chamberlain and by the exponents of Mr. Chamberlain's policy. He has asked us, if we denounce these treaties, are we prepared to say in our Colonies that we shall give a concession to the mother country ? I could not say that on any account at the present time; that is a matter that we should have to discuss with our colleagues on our return to the Colonies.
The Secretary of State.] Yes, all I ask from this assembly is that each gentleman should say wliether or not he would be prepared to recom. mend it.
80.
Mr. Seddon.] Very well, that brings me to what was said by Mr. Chamber- lain, and, which I take it, is a basis, at the former Conference. May I allude to that speech? At the Conference held in June, the Chamber of Commerce Conference in June last, in which he said this, that: "We know how strenuously the Colonies cling to their own independence, to their own initiative. If they desire, as we desire, and as we believe they do, this closer union, if they are willing to make some sacrifice of their present arrangements and convictions in order to secure it, let them say Let the offer come voluntarily from them, and I believe it will be considered in this country, not in any huckstering spirit, but that it will be entertained as part of a great policy which is intended to unite in the closest bonds of affection and of interest all the communities which are under the British flag, and al' the subjects of Her Majesty throughout the world." And then he further added, "No one denies the advantages that would accrue to the whole of Her Majesty's subjects of some union which would lead to closer rela- tions, and retain within the Empire the trade and the subjects now diverted to foreign lands." From that I gather that any proposal coming from us would be dealt with by the Imperial Parliament, and that there would be, as has been mentioned on the discussion that followed, and the resolution which was passed, that there would be some consideration given by the Imperial authorities. I know, of course, that that would open a very wide subject, and interfere with the fiscal policy of the mother country, and would raise C 4
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