CO885-(6-7) — Page 445

452

PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE

Reference :-

C.O. 885

6

PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON

ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC- COPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH-NOT TO

20

SECOND DAY.

Monday, 28th June 1897.

PRESENT:

The Right Honourable JOSEPH CHAMBERLAIN, M.P., in the Chair.

The Right Honourable The EARL OF SELBORNE, Parliamentary Under

Secretary of State for the Colonies.

MR. EDWARD WINGFIELD, C.B., Permanent Under Secretary of State for

the Colonies.

SIR JOHN BRAMSTON, K.C.M.G., C.B., First Assistant Under Secretary

of State for the Colonies.

PREMIERS:

The Right Honourable SIR WILFRID LAURIER, G.C.M.G., Q.C., Canada. The Right Honourable G. H. REID, New South Wales.

The Right Honourable SIR GEORGE TURNER, K.C.M.G., Victoria. The Right Honourable RICHARD Joan Seddon, New Zealand.

The Right Honourable SIR HUGH MUIR NELSON, K.C.M.G., Queensland.

The Right Honourable SIR GORDON SPRIGG, K.C.M.G., Cape. The Right Honourable C. C. KINGSTON, Q.C., South Australia. The Right Honourable SIR WILLIAM V. WHITEWAY, K.C.M.G., Q.C.,

Newfoundland.

The Right Honourable SIR E. N. C. BRADDON, K.C.M.G., Tasmania. The Right Honourable SIR JOHN FORREST, K.C.M.G., F.R.G.S., Western

Australia.

The Right Honourable Harry ESCOMBE, Q.C., Natal.

MR. JOHN ANDERSON (Secretary).

Private Secretaries to MR. CHAMBERLAIN:

Mr. H. F. WILSON, LORD AMPTHILL, The Honourable T. II.

COCHRANE, M.P., and MR. II. J. READ.

The Secretary of State.] Well, gentlemen, you have each received a draft of our proceedings on the last occasion. They still remain to be corrected. I notice some little slips in my own speech, and I have no doubt that there are slips in the speeches of others. I think, perhaps, we did not speak quite loud enough for the reporter to hear us. On Mr. Reid's suggestion you kindly undertook to consider the matters which I suggested for discussion, and to be prepared to-day to make some statement in regard, at all events, to some of thein.

Sir Wilfrid Laurier.] It would be advisable, I believe, to determine at once the order of discussion-what subjects should be taken up. Mr. Chamberlain, in the course of his remarks the other day, opened three classes of subjects, the political relations, the military relations, and the commercial relations. Sir George Turner thought that we should commence with the commercial relations, which seems to be a good suggestion. If that is agreeable, I would move that we commence with the commercial relations and take them seriatim.

21

The Secretary of State.] If that is the general opinion?

Agreed.

COMMERCIAL RELATIONS.

Sir Wilfrid Laurier.] Well then, we commence with the commercial relations, gentlemen. To take them in the order suggested in the remarks of Mr. Chamberlain, we should have to ask the denunciation first, I think, of the treaties; the German treaty; the Belgian treaty; which are such a block to the improved relations which now exist with Canada. I think I may say to Mr. Chamberlain that we discussed the matter informally between us, and I do not know if I express the views correctly, but there was a general assent on the broad ground that those treaties now clash with the well-known policy of Great Britain towards the Colonies, that is to say, the policy which is well known to exist that no treaty would be entered into by Great Britain to affect the Colonies except with the consent of the Colonies; that those treaties now clash with this policy, and are a remnant of a policy which was not so well determined before as it is now. It would be advisable that those treaties should be denounced at as early a date as practicable considering the present relations with the interest of Great Britain with those countries. I think that I express the views of the Premiers.

Mr. Reid.] I have only one comment to make on what Sir Wilfrid Laurier has said. We have given full consideration to the no doubt difficult position of Her Majesty's Government, and we do not wish this expression of opinion to be taken at least I do not wish the expression of opinion to be taken as so strong that I should feel any sense of disappoint. ment if Her Majesty's Government, viewing the whole matter from an Imperial standpoint, does not at present see the advisability of carrying out that view. I think I speak for the other Premiers. At the same time, we are in sympathy with what we look upon as the admirable forward movement made by Sir Wilfrid Laurier. We think it essentially a position which affects especially this country. It should be understood that some of us, at any rate, do not wish to press our rights, whatever they may be in the Colonies, on Her Majesty's Government. We simply wish to lay down a general proposition, so that if it can help the Government in the course they wish to take then it may be understood that we have a strong sympathy with it, in a strong sense, if it helps the British Government, and not in so strong a sense if it does

I think that that was the general view of the Premiers.

not.

The Secretary of State.] The view taken by the British Government has been expressed already publicly by Lord Salisbury to this extent: that if such treaties did not exist certainly it would not now be our policy to make them; but as to whether those treaties that are existing should be denounced, that is still a matter which is open to consideration, and which I propose, after hearing your views, to refer to my colleagues. In doing so I should like to call attention to this fact. The matter has been brought to a crisis, I may say, by the action of Canada, because the question of treaties does not interfere in any way with the present, or with the proposed relations with the other Colonies, and what I wish, therefore, to know is whether any of the other Colonies which stand now in the position in which Canada stood before its recent resolution, is prepared to follow the example of Canada, if the treaties are denounced; that is to say, will any of the Colonies which now levy heavy duties against all imports, including British imports, be prepared, if we denounce the treaties, and get rid of the treaties, to give to the mother country some preference, such as that offered to us by Canada.

Sir George Turner.] Would the reverse of Canada's proceedings satisfy you; supposing, instead of reducing our duties, we increased our duties as far as foreign countries are concerned and allowed our present duties to remain as far as British imports are concerned, would that go some way towards meeting your views as near as possible? In our colony we have established by our protective tariffs, certain manufactures. Those manufacturers will at once say, "If you attempt to reduce the duties, C 3

COMMERCIAL

RELATIONS.

COMMERCIAL RELATIONS.