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Reference :-
885/26
PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON
ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC- COPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH-NOT TO
:
17 November, 1919.]
COLONIAL Medical SERVICES COMMITTEE.
MB. JoBupi Artuur Pickela, M.B., B.S. (London), &o,
118. You probably share the general opinion that it is desirable that Natives of West Africa should not be members of the staff-In a way; I do not think it is desirable if it can be avoided, because you do not get the quality.
118. As regards this question of Inspector-General, to hark back, the position of the Director of Atedical and Sanitary Service in India is subordinate to the
Governor? Yes.
120. Whereas, your Inspector-General would not be subordinate to anybody except the Colonial Office? Presumably.
121. Do you think there would be no practical difficulty in such a situation as regards his working with the individuals on the spot?—Yes, there may be, but I mean to say, if he were officially recognised by the Colonial Office, with authority to meet the Governors in that way, and to put his views before them, as he is not at present, do you not think that that might be overcome P
122. I am not so sure. You are thinking of the analogy, I expect, of the Inspector-General of the West African Frontier Force?—No, I am not.
123. Can you tell us of any appointment at all that would be parallel to that; an Inspector-General or something of that kind, exercising his functions under two or three different Governments?-Of course, his functions would simply be advisory, I take it.
124. Entirely advisory, inspection and advising? - Inspection and advising. He would hear the views of every one and he would naturally interview
Governors before he left.
125. You do not think the Governors, and possibly also the principal medical officers-you do not see a danger in that would think that questions which they had settled were being discussed behind their backs? That would be an unfortunate feeling; that would only hold things back.
126. Do you think there is a danger in any such situation? Yes, I think there is a certain amount of risk of that.
127. Do you not think that that difficulty night be intensified if you had your Director-General at the Colonial Office, that both the Governor and the princi- pal medical officer might feel that a discontented medical officer going home would go to the Colonial Office and put his case before this Director-General, and that this Director-General would then tender advice to the Colonial Office staff, or to the Secretary of State himself, and the Governor, or the principal medical officer, would not get fair play?—On a ques- tion of importance like that, if the Director-General had no personal knowledge of things, I think that it would be referred.
128. It might not be a question of importance; it might be some small question, and I have known people, and probably you have known people, who would not hesitate to conceal from the Director- General the fact that the question had been raised on the coast P-Yes, that is so.
120. There is the danger of a question that the Governor and the principal medical officer had con- sidered and decided being heard again?—There is certainly a question, a point like that, if the medical officer did not think his views had been worthily con- sidered, or did not receive the consideration he thought they ought to have received, or been cutitled to, that he might put it up that way.
180. You spoke of the Director-General at the Colonial Office having the confidence of both sides; you mean the medical side and whom? Well, the Government side.
131. The Government side exactly; well, do you think it is very likely the Director-General, appointed we will say in middle-age, with not, perhaps, much previous knowledge of the Colonies, would be able to get the confidence of the Government, considering that he is to look after the whole of the Colonial Medical Service?--If he could not inspire confidence, ho would try and do his best to help them, if there wan any reason to help; whatever his decision was even if adverse, they would accept it, more or less, with satisfaction. The difficulty is, when they do not feel that they have, in a sort of way, "had a run for their money."
[Continued.
132. You say that as far as you know, the Service is not discontented in West Afrion? When I have been up North I have received very little indication. 133. Chairman: You thought they were contented? I think they are, as a whole, taking them very fairly. I judge from the North; nothing has come forward to me. Of course, there are little points now and then that will come up.
134. Mr. Fiddian: Yet, I suppose, the Northern Provinces are the places where they are worst off officially, are they not? Yes.
135. The place where there is less private practice to be got? Yes, there are very few patients.
130. Where it is most expensive to live? Well, it all depends. For instance, you can live fairly comfortably at a reasonable rate in some places. Except luxuries, and what you may call necessities, which are few, you can live in some places on what you can get locally, and if you are well away in the bush you can get these fairly reasonably; but when you come to the big centres and the big towns, where they are beginning to trade, and where the European traders have come, things soon begin to go up.
137. There are big towns springing up in the Northern Provinces, are there not, considerable towns; European cantonments are growing in those towns-places like Kaduna and the rest?-Kaduna is new; that does not count.
138. But still, big towns are growing up in the Northern Provinces P-Mostly on the railway, not much above the railway.
139. Still, you find comparative contentment pre- vails even there? I have not heard anything different. You have all these little troubles, as you used to hear before, hetween one branch and another every now and then; but taking them as a whole they generally ease themselves off very shortly.
140. The absence of private practice does not tend necessarily to discontent in the Service, does it P- Not in the North; there are very few places where there is any private practice.
141. There is a war bonus given, is there not?- Yes.
142. And to some extent that counteracts the in- crease in the cost of living to a limited extent?-To a limited extent.
143. How much is it for an ordinary man of the West African Medical Staff? It is a fixed sum, is it not? Oh, no, it varies.
144. Chairman: Is it a percentage of the salary, or what? I do not think it was calculated on that; if it had been, it would not have been a diminishing
one.
145. Mr. Fiddian: You spoke of the advantage to the Government and the advantage to the Medical Officers of amalgamation of the West African Medical Staff: There is still a third person to be considered, is there not ? Has there been much advantage to the public in the amalgamation, or do you think it has not made any difference whatever?-It does not affect them to any great extent.
146. The traders and people like that do not care; no long as they get a doctor and he is a capable man. they do not mind? That is the main point.
147. I suppose there is no real reason now, if a man comes into the West African Medical Staff, and - someone asks him, and he says the West African Medical Staff, the Colonial Medical Service. The West African Medical Staff is part of the Colonial Medical Service?—Oh, I think so; he would be quite justified in saying that.
148. A member of the West African Medical Staff would regard himself as a member of the Colonial Medical Service? Yes, he would.
149. He might be heard to use the phrase some- times?—I do not know.
150. The advantages, as far as the officer in con- cerned, of the amalgamation of the West African Medical Staff, are the similarity of conditions and flow of promotion, I take it? Yes, 1
more even think so.
151. The disadvantage is simply changes?-Well, it is; the changes there affect the public, because a
17 November, 1919.]
MINUTES OF EVIDENCE.
MR. JOSEPH ARTHUR PICKELS, M.B., B.. (London), e.
man gets used to one lot of people, he may be able to talk to them, if only in a small way; it all helps; and if he is put amongst a different lot altogether, needless to any, that does not re-act to their benefit. 152. That is in the case of a man who is moved normally, without promotion just an ordinary range of station: Are you not thinking of a case of that kind P-It might be in both cases. Supposing a Medical Officer in Nigeria is promoted to where on the Gold Coast, he meets a different stamp of people altogether, with a different language. He may be sent up country, he may not be kept at a Headquarters Station.
some-
153. Can you suggest any remedy? Do you think that moving people from one Colony to another is such a disadvantage that something ought to be done to check it? No, I do not think it ought to be checked, but where it is possible, and everyone is satisfied, they should be kept in the same Colony.
154. That is done where possible, I gather, now?— I understand it to be so; in fact, if it is not, en- deavours are sometimes made to bring about the necessary change. I have known of one instance.
155. As regards the unfortunato public impression about West Africa, the only thing that West Africa can do is to live it down, is it not? That is what it comes to That, of course, is the chief thing.
156. West African officers on leave will always be careful to conduct themselves in such a manner 95 not to reinforce the stigma, shall we say?—I do not know of any case where they have not.
157. I throw that out as a suggestion, na a way in which that sometimes might he avoided. You used to have rather a curious type of Medical Officer in West Africs, had you not, a number of people on six mantha' contract, just after the South African War D -I do not know; I could not say.
158. Chairman: What is your objection to Medical Officers of 21? Well, I think when they have to deal with the natives they are much better if they are a bit more level-headed than they are at 21. You do get meu at 21 who would make
very useful Officers; I do not deny that for a moment; but n man at 21 is a young man. Even in general practice in England a man at 21 is not looked up to with the same ideas in private practice as a man of 25 or 26 who has got a little bit further on and goz more experience.
159. Then time corrects that disadvantage?-Oh I think so, but if you are to put a man like that into a station by himself, I will not say you will have trouble, but you will not get as good results as otherwise. If you can make special posts under other men, you will get some good out of them. I do not see any objection to it at all; but, unfortunately, at present you cannot do it.
160. I understand it is difficult to keep up tho supply of men of 25; do you not think it would be easier to get candidates of 21P-I do not know. man does not always qualify at 21, and with tho increased medical curriculum, I think you will find very few who will finish up their time and qualify at 21 and be satisfied to remain like that.
161. If you could select, say, at 21, and keep them in England for two years' training, would you then consider them satisfactory for employment?—I do not say that a man of 21 would be unsatisfactory, but I think they are better when they aro a little bit more settled; that is the wrong word perhaps, a little more sedate and likely to carry more influence the with the people, because so much depends on influence exerted by them. A native, as you know, forms his impression very rapidly of a man.
162. Dr. Hood: What about the Europeans P-In what way?
169. Would they appreciate the servicos of youngster of 21-I do not think they would to any great extent; they would accept it if there was nothing else, but they would like an older man.
164. Chairman: Men who have been transferred to East Africa are generally anxious to get back again? That has been my experience.
165. Have you any knowledge of whether men now in East Africa would be willing to come to Weat Africa P-I know nothing about that
[Continued.
7
188. Mr. Fiddan: Would you regard the salaries in the West African Medical Service as adequate; forgive somewhat personal question? I think it would be an advantage; though it is rather difficult to arrange, if the P.M.O's were all put on the same basis.
167. Even the P.M.O. of Sierra Leona?-Well, it is difficult. A man is appointed P.M.O. to a certain place, well, naturally, if it is not where he can get the most pension, he would prefer to be tumoved if there is a vacancy.
108. The objection heretofore has been that places like Sierra Leone, which have smaller salaries for Heads of Departments, ought to be on a somewhat. lower level than places like the Gold Coast? The man who is sent there will want to be changed as
chance. as there is
1t is
one staff; he would naturally think as soon as he is appointed, vary posibly I have the next claim to any vacancy in one of the other places."
BOON
109. Do you think it would be a remedy to have all the salaries the same?I do not say it would be a remedy; it is a very difficult thing to remedy.
170. A man appointed to a poor Colony who wante to get to the top of the tree will want to go some- where else. If you unify the salaries of the P.M.O's, you must either unify them on the righest scale of the P.M,O. who has £1,200, or unify them on some- thing lower down, which will be to the disadvantage of those persons with £1,2009-You will always have the man with the lowest place, if it is ne service like that, wanting to get out of it; he will take it as a stepping stone. He says it does not do to refuse promotion, but as soon as there is a chance I shall ask if they cannot see their way to put me Lomewhere else,
171. You would call him something else?-He would not want so much while he was in that rank.
172. It comes to very much the same; Gambia has As many changes as most places?--I quite agree; it is very difficult, but you will always find that. I should not consider it to the advantage of the Colony.
173. Sir Jumes Fowler: It has been suggested, and I should like to hear your view on it, that the titles of the various officers at the top should be assimilated to those in the Army, because, during the War, those titles and the abbreviations have become very well known.
For example, Dr. Hood is the Director of Medical Services in Nigeria. The suggestion is that
the person at the Head should be the Director of Medical Services, that is D.M.S.; that the next person should be the Deputy Director of Medical Services, D.D.M.S.; there should then be an Assistant Director of Medical Services, A.D.M.S., and then there would be Medical Officers. Have you anything to say to that? Personally, I do not think there is very much in it, at least from our point of view.
174. Except that it is so well-known'?--Yea. 175, Mr. Piddian: Does the average officer of the West African Medical Staff desire anything in the nature of a military status, do you think? I do not think the average officer does.
170. He would prefer to be a civilian?--Yes, I think so.
177. Quite a lot of West African men have been military officers in the Cameroons; they were given temporary and local ranks; it worked quite well? Oh, yes.
178. Sir James Fowler: I was not suggesting that they should have military rank?-Oh, I know that.
179. These titles have nothing to do with military rank or otherwise?--I do not think it would affect the matter; if it were thought advisable, it would bu all right.
180. The question is the various titles, that there should be a principal medical officer, and so on?- Yes, quite so.
181. You would then have Director of Sanitary Services who would be D.8.9., and the Deputy-Director of Sanitary Services and so on; thứ title in an absolute necessity? The matter is the same; you would not suggest, would you, putting in other Directors?
the
182. Having a Director of the Sanitary Services ?--- And another of the Medical Services.
189. Yes, but the relations of the two have oftan been discussed and are well understood?—I am afraid
it might lead to misunderstanding occasionally.
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