CO885-(26N14) — Page 146

لسانيا

PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE

Reference :-

885/26

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в

17 November, 1919.]

COLONIAL MEDICAL SERVICES COMMITTEE.

MR. Josaru Arthur Pickkia, M.B., B.S. (London), &c.

118. You probably share the general opinion that it is desirable that Natives of West Africa should not be members of the staff-In a way; I do not think it is desirable if it can be avoided, because you do not get the quality.

118 As regards this question of Inspector-General, to hark back, the position of the Director of Medical and Sanitary Service in India is subordinate to the Governor?--Yes.

190. Whereas, your Inspector-General would not be subordinate to anybody except the Colonial Office?— Presumably.

121. Do you think there would be no practical difficulty in such a situation as regards his working with the individuals on the spot?--Yes, there may be, but I mean to say, if he were officially recognised by the Colonial Office, with authority to meet the Governors in that way, and to put his views before them, as he is not at present, do you not think that that might be overcome?

123. I am not so sure. You are

thinking of the analogy, 1 expect, of the Inspector-General of the West African Frontier Force?—No, I am not.

123. Can you tell us of any appointment at all that would be parallel to that; an Inspector-General

or something of that kind, exercising his Functions under two or three different Governments?- Of course, his functions would simply be advisory, I take it.

124. Entirely advisory, inspection and advising?-- Inspection and advising. He would hear the views of every one and he would naturally interview Governors before he left.

125. You do not think the Governors, and possibly also the principal medical officons-you do not see danger in that would think that questions which they had settled were being discussed behind their backs? That would be an unfortunate feeling; that would only hold things back.

126. Do you think there is a danger in any such situation? Yes, I think there is a certain amount of risk of that.

127. Do you not think that that difficulty might bo intensified if you had your Director-General at the Colonial Office, that both the Governor and the princi pal medical officer might feel that a discontented medical officer going home would go to the Colonial Office and put his case before this Director-Goueral, and that this Director-General would then tender advice to the Colonial Office staff, or to the Secretary of State himself, and the Governor, or the principal medical officer, would not get fair play?—On a ques- tion of importance like that, if the Director-General had no personali knowledge of things, I think that it would be referred.

128. It might not be a question of importance; it might be some small question, and I have known people, and probably you have known people, who would not hesitate to conceal from the Director- General the fact that the question had been raised on the coast?--Yes, that is so.

129. There is the danger of a question that the Governor and the principal medical officer had con- sidered and decided being heard again? There is certainly a question, a point like that, if the medical officer did not think his viewa had been worthily con sidered or did not receive the consideration he thought they ought to have received, or been cutitled to, that he might put it up that way.

180. You spoke of the Director-General at the Colonial Office having the confidence of both sides; you mean the medical side and whom?--Well, the Government side.

131. The Government side exactly; woll, do you think it is very likely the Director-General, appointed we will say in middle-age, with not, perhaps, much previous knowledge of the Colonies, would be able to get the confidence of the Government, considering that he is to look after the whole of the Colonial Medical Service?--If he could not inspire confidence, he would try and do his best to help them, if there was any reason to help; whatever his decision was even if adverse, they would accept it, more or less, with satisfaction. The difficulty is, when they do not feel that they have, in a sort of way, "had a run for their money.

13

[Continued.

132. You say that as far as you know, the Service is not discontented in West Afrion?-- When I have been up North I have received very little indication. 133. Chairman: You thought they were contented? I think they are, as a whole, taking them very fairly. I judge from the North; nothing has come forward to me. Of course, there are little points now and then that will come up.

134. Mr. Piddian: Yet, I suppose, the Northern Provinces are the places where they are worst off officially, are they not?--Yes.

135. The place where there is less private practice to be got? Yes, there are very few patients.“

136. Where it is most expensive to live? Well, it all depends. For instance, you can live fairly comfortably at a reasonable rate in some places. Except luxuries, and what you may call necessities, which are few. you can live in some places on what you can get locally, and if you are well away in the bush you can got these fairly reasonably; but when you come to the big centres and the big towns, where they are beginning to trade, and where the European traders have come, things soon begin to go up.

137. There are big towns springing up in the Northern Provinces, are there not considerable towns; European cantonments are growing in those towns-places like Kaduna and the rest?-Kaduna in new; that does not count.

138. But still, big towns are growing up in the Northern Provinces P-Mostly on the railway, not much above the railway.

139. Still, you find comparative contentment pre- vails even there I have not heard anything different. You have all these little troubles, as you used to hear before, between one branch and another every now and then; but taking them as a whole they generally ease themselves off very shortly.

140. The absence of private practice does not tend necessarily to discontent in the Service, does it?- Not in the North; there are very few places where there is any private practice.

141. There is a war honus given, is there not?- Yes.

142. And to some extent that counteracts the in- crease in the cost of living to a limited extent P-To a limited extent.

143. How much is it for an ordinary man of the West African Medical Staff? It is a fixed aum, is it not? Oh, no, it varies.

144. Chairman: Is it a percentage of the salary, or what?—I do not think it was calculated on that; if it had been, it would not have been a diminishing

one.

145. Mr. Fiddian: You spoke of the advantage to the Government and the advantage to the Medical Officers of amalgamation of the Wost African Medical Staff: There is still a third person to be considered, is there not? Has there been much advantage to the public in the amalgamation, or do you think it has not made any difference whatever It does not affect them to any great extent.

146. The traders and people like that do not care; as long as they get a doctor and he is a capable man. they do not mind P-That is the main point.

147. I suppose there is no real reason now, if man comes into the West African Medical Staff, and - someone asks him, and he says the West African Medical Staff, the Colonial Medical Service. The West African Medical Staff is part of the Colonial Medical Service?—Oh, I think so; he would be quite justified in saying that.

148. A member of the West African Medical Staff would regard himself as a member of the Colonial Medical Service?-Yes, he would.

149. He might be heard to use the phrase some- time I do not know.

150. The advantages, na far as the officer is con- cerned, of the amalgamation of the West African Medical Staff, are the similarity of conditions and more even flow of promotion, I take it ?-You, 1 think so.

151. The disadvantage is simply changes --Well, it is; the changes there affect the public, because a

17 November,

man gets used to talk to them. and if he is p needless to say

152. That is normally, with change of stat

that kind P-

a Medical Offic where on the (

of people altog may be sent u Headquarters E 153. Can you that moving F such a disadva:

to check it P- checked, but y satiefied, they e

151. That in

I understand

deavours are necessary chan

155. As rega about Wast Ai

can do is to li

it comes to ?..."

156. Wost A careful to con not to reinforc know of any ca

157. I throw

which that BOR

to have rather West Africa, h

montha' contra

--I do not knc 158. Chairme

Officers of 21 deal with the are a bit more

do get men

Officers; I do man at 21 is a

in England a

the same idea.

or 26 who ha

more experienc

159. Then t

1 think so, br

into a station

trouble, but; otherwise. If men, you will

BOO any object

present you ca 180. I unde Bupply of men

easier to get a

man does not

increased med very few who

21 and be sati

161. If you

in England fo

consider them

say that a ma

think they a

more settled;

little more sec

with the peop influence exer

forms his impr

162. Dr. H

what way?

169. Would youngster of

to any great

was nothing el

164. Chairm

to East Afric

again? That

166. Have y

in East Afric Africa P-I k

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MINUTES OF EVIDENCE,

MR. JOSEPH Arthur Pickels, M.B., B.S. (London), &c.

tion, but you would know across it occasionally; one ciate it, so, possibly, one to it than ono otherwise

ifference between a mediend ica and the executive man there is rather.

ast the medical man; that t to have failed, or to have omething after that style.

an official who corre General of the Naval or n men come back and tell et themselves, and regard

man would you have in ve a man who has had a s country, or who has had the Colonial Service?-do

vidual. He would have to

e Service; it would not be

who had ever had any were talking about,

the individuals, do you

uld make much difference

o him as a man who was or a man who had been with themselves; which em? There is more in it he man will be gympathetic are driving at, and also will get much more out of :hink so.

now as regards his quali. qualification, he would re fge and experiance of what erwise he would not get

tropical experience?—Not

al Servico that you are

cal kind?-Quite so.

I

than exactly tropical.

n: I do not know whether that possibly there might the Service that, wheun rhaps, receive a decoration ything in that? I think nt, not that the men are the point; the point is, if

e would stand at a higher

largo order, but, with ack, imagine that you are ho could direct and make what would be the main hich you have raentioned, dify at the present time? :ion.

iding feature, if any?—I Any outstanding feature is satisfactory. It might ut I think, taking things

testion I am going to ask sonal in any way. Do you improved, in Nigeria," by

Northern and Southern. id Sierra cone? Northern and Southern P tinct advance.

ivance could be ontinued t and Sierra Leone and themselves so much to it

rn portions of Nigeria.

g could be unified into one

an Inspector, do you not antage-Yes, I think it

to make many provisos

ore or less the same in and the conditions are

1 might go a step further

ican Colonien? do not

> go into that; 1 do not

Africa.

98. But from what one hears from men who come back from there, the countries are very similar, the diseases

Bru very similar, and the experience generally would not like to hazard an opinior

on that; du not know enough about it.

90. With regard to wives going out, there has never been any case of the Service having suffered by the presence of a wife? No, I have never heard it.

100. I must say I have never heard it-I am inclined to think, if I might venture a remark with reference to what you have been talking about, that in

the Northern and Southern provinces, the positions, in a way, might be a little more defined to the satisfaction of all in reference to the two P.M.O's, and the Director; whether or not the Director should not be really the P.M.O. in a way, and the other man simply working under his direc- tion. I do not mean to say that I have had any friction in any way; it is not P personal matter

at all the only point of principle is, whether the P.M.O. should be more or less independent and recog uise that the Director really is the controlling

feature.

101. Chairman: Do you know why it was not arranged that he should be the Head of the Nigerian Medical Service?-1 do not know.

102. Dr. Hood: He is the Head, but he is not an

administrative officer in the ordinary sense?-He is the Head

108. Chairman: Do you know any reason why the

medical servico should not be administered by a Director in the same way as it is in other Colonies; the two Nigerins are amalgamated now?—I do not know the reason why it was arranged as it is.

104. Mr. Fideltan: Did not the post come into existence; in the actual amalgamation of Northern and Southern Nigeria, was it not a sort of post that was created partly to help on the way to amalgama. tion, a sort of forerunner of the event? I have an idea that that was so?-What exactly was the date of the amalgamation?

in

105. The Secretary: The amalgamation was January, 1914-1 think the analgamation was before

then.

106. Mr. Fiddian: I think it was partially; I think that was really the reason. You said there was a certain difference in the position of Northern and Southern Nigeria and that of Nigeria and the Gold Coast, although the staff is nominally amalgamated. The difference, I take it, is that in Nigeria you have a Director and the people are moved from north to south indifferently? Well, they are not, but they might be.

107. But they are also liable to bo na between the Gold Coast and Sierra Leone, or the Gold Coast and NigeriaIt is much more inconvenient.

question of inconvenience?-To

fus. It is simply

a large extent.

109. If a man is moved from the Gold Coast to Nigeria, his actual sos-passage is paid?-Oh, yes.

110. If a man were moved from Nigeria to take an appointment overseas, say in Ceylon, his passage would not be paid; he would have to pay it himself? -He would not to England.

111. Yes, that is so, he would not, but from England to Ceylon, he would have to pay, would he notI do not know,

112. Chairman: Would not the Colony pay it?

113. Mr. Fiddian: Not if the post were over £500 a year. That is one of the difficulties. Just one

question on competitive examination; you would, I suppose, agree that some people might get in under

a competitive examination, that are not quite suited

to ordinary West African conditionaP-That is so, but, as far as I have heard, there are means adopted

by other branches by which they can manage to ex- clude them.

114. The Interviewing Committee, or something of that kind; I see?—Yes.

15. Are you quite familiar with the difficulties of

the position of Natives of West Africa in relation

to the West African Medical Staff; I mean ruember-

ship of the staff? The difficulties?

116. You know the agitation ?—Yes.

117. It would be rather more difficult to keep them

out under a competitive system, would it not, suppos.

ing it were still desired to keep them out?Yes,

there is no doubt it would.