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RECORD OFFICE, LONDON ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC-

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE.

MR. JOSEPH ARTHUR PICKELS, M.B., B. 4. (London), &c.

lot of people, he may be ablo y in a small way; it all helps; igst a different lot altogether, loes not re-act to their benefit. case of a man who is moved romotion just an ordinary re you not thinking of a case it be in both cases. Supposing figeria is promoted to some.

sat, he meets a different stamp with a different language. He try, he may not be kept at a

it any remedy? Do you think

rom one Colony to another is

at something ought to be done

do not think it ought to be

t is possible, and everyone is

e kept in the same Colony.

here possible, I gather, now?—

so; in fact, if it is not, en- es made to bring about the have known of one instance.

unfortunate public impression e only thing that West Africa own, is it not? That is what

course, is the chief thing. officers on leave will always be emselves in auch a manner as tigins, shall we say?-I do not

e they have not.

it as a suggestion, as a way in

might be avoided. You used

ous type of Medical Officer in not, a number of people on mix after the South African War" uld not say.

at is your objection to Medical

I think when they have to they are much better if they aded than they are at 21. You ho would make very useful 17 that for a moment; but a man. Even in general practice 21 is not looked up to with ivate practice as

man of 25

little bit further on and got

rects that disadvantage?—Oh u are to put a man like that elf, I will not say you will have I not get a good results AR

make special poate under other e good out of them.

I do not

t at all; but, unfortunately, at › it.

it is difficult to keep up tha

do you not think it would be

sen of 21P-I do not know, A

qualify at 21, and with thi riculum, I think you will find th up their time and qualify at remain like that.

lect, say, at 21, and keep them ears' training, would you then tory for employment P-I do not would be unsatisfactory, but I when they are a little bit the wrong word perhaps, a

I likely to carry more influence

use so much depends on them. A native, as you know,

ery rapidly of a man.

the

hat about the Europeana In

sppreciate the services of

I do

not think they would

they would accept it if there they would like an older man. en who have been transferred generally anxious to get back

my experience,

knowledge of whether men now

d be willing to come to Weat

sing about that.

[Continued.

106. Mr. Fiddian: Would you regard the salaries in the West African Medical Service as adequate; forgive a somewhat personal question?-1 think it would be an advantage; though it is rather difficult to arrange, if the P.M.O's. were all put on the saine basis.

167. Even the P.M.O. of Sierra Leone? Well, it is certain difficult. A man is appointed P.M.O. to place, well, naturally, if it is not where he can get the most pension, he would prefer to be removed if there is a vacancy.

168. The objection heretofore has been that places

like Sierra Leone, which have smaller salaries for Heads of Departments, ought to be on a somewhat lower level than places like the Gold Coast? The

man who is sent there will want to be changed as as there is chance. It is one staff;

soon

a

he would naturally think as soon as he is appointed, "very possibly I have the next claim to any vacancy

in one of the other places."

109. Do you think it would be a remedy to have

all the salaries the same?-I do not say it would be a remedy; it is a very difficult thing to remedy.

170. A man appointed to a poor Colony who wants

to get to the top of the tree will want to go some-

where else. If you unify the salaries of the P.M.O's,

you must either unify them on the righest scale of the P.M.O. who has £1,200, or unify them on some. thing lower down, which will be to the disadvantage of those persons with £1,200-You will always have the man with the lowest place, if it is cne service

like that, wanting to get out of it; he will take it as a stepping stone. He says it does not do to refuse promotion, but as soon as there is a chance I shall ask if they cannot see their way to put me tomewhere cise.

171. You would call him something else?—He would not want so much while he was in that rank.

172. It comes to very much the same; Gambia has

as many changes as most places?--I quite agree; it is very difficult, but you will always find that. I should not consider it to the advantage of the Colony.

173, Sir James Fowler: It has been suggested, and

I should like to hear your view on it, that the titles of the various officers at the top should be assimilated to those in the Army, because, during the War, those titles and the abbreviations have become very well known. For example, Dr. Hood is the Director of Medical Services in Nigeria. The suggestion is that the person at the Head should be the Director of Medical Services, that is D.M.S.; that the next person should be the Deputy Director of Medical Services, D.D.M.S.; there should then be an Assistant Director of Medical Services, A.D.M.S., and then there would

bo Medical Officers. Have you anything to say to that? Personally, I do not think there is very much

in it, at least from our point of view.

174. Except that it is so well-known?—Yes.

175. Mr. Fiddian: Does the average officer of the West African Medical Staff desire anything in the nature of a military status, do you think?--I do not think the average officer doen.

176. He would prefer to be a civilian?—Yes, 1 think so.

177. Quite a lot of West African men have been military officers in the Cameroons; they were given temporary and local ranks; it worked quite well? Oh, yes.

178. Sir James Fowler: I was not suggesting that they should have military rank? Oh, I know that.

179. These titles have nothing to do with military rank or otherwise?--I do not think it would affect the matter; if it were thought advisable, it would be all right.

180. The quration is the various titles, that there should be a principal medical officer, and so on?-- Yes, quite so.

181. You would then have a Director of the Sanitary Services who would be D.S.S., and the Deputy-Director of Sanitary Services and so on; the title is an absolute necessity ? The matter is the same; you would not suggest, would you, putting in other Directors?

182. Having a Director of the Sanitary Services P

And another of the Medical Services.

189. Yes, but the relations of the two have often been discussed and are well understood?--I am afraid

it might lead to misunderstanding occasionally.

$

17 November, 1919.]

COLONIAL MEDICAL SERVICES COMMITTEE.

MR. JOSEPH ARTHUR PICKia, M.B., B.8. (London), &c.

184. Chairman: Is there any wish for change in the titles of these posts now, do you think?—I have not heard it proposed or suggested by any one.

185. Sir Humphry Rolleston: There is no desire to have uniform?-Only a certain few; a few would prefer uniform, and, of course, as regards expouse it would be cheaper.

188. Mr. Fiddian: There is a certain uniform you can wear, if you like, now; a West African uniform? -There was something; I have not heard anything of it for a long time.

187. It is not popular?-I have not seen it worn by M.O.'s for a long time,

188. Khaki is worn in the ordinary sort of way? Oh yes, frequently khaki.

[Continued.

Sir James Fowler: Uniform was discussed at the Departmental Committee, and it appears that a good many officers objected to wear uniform.

Chairman: And a good many were not aware that they were entitled to wear it.

Sir James Fowler: Othors raised the point about wearing uniform at the reception of the newly- arrived Governor.

189. Chairman: As a matter of fact, at the recep- tion of the newly-arrived Governor,

the persons

present to represent the Medical Department would usually be very high officials?-Oh, yes.

190. At Lagos, for instance, they would WOM the uniform appropriate to their rank? Yes.

We are much obliged to you.

(The Witness withdrew.)

(Adjourned till Monday next, the 24th November, 1919, at 9 p.m.)

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LIEUT.-COLONEL SIR JAMES

FOWLER, K.C.V.O., C.M.G., M.D., D.Sc., F.R.C.P., R.A.M.C. (T.).

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SECOND DAY. Monday, 24th November, 1919.

PABSENT:

SIR WALTER EGERTON, K.C.M.G. (Chairman),

HARRY VERNEY,

LIEUT.-COLONEL Bt., D.S.O.

SIROBON REAR-ADMIRAL SIR HUMPHRY D.

ROLLESTON, K.C.B., M.D., F.R.C.P.

MR. T. HOOD, C.M.G., M.R.C.S., L.R.C.P. MR. A. FIDDIAN.

Mr. J. E. W. FLOOD (Secretary). Dr. JOHN CURRIS, called in and examined.

191. Chairman: You are senior medical officer in Northern Nigeria?—Yes, Sir.

192. You began your career in the Colonial Service in Southern Nigeria?-In Lagos Colony.

193. When was that?-In 1904.

194. And between going to your present post and Southern Nigeria, you went to East Africa?-My first service was in Lagos Colony, then in Southern Nigeria, and then I went to Northern Nigeria; from Northern Nigeria I went to East Africa.

195. Which part of East Africa?—I went first to Entebbe and then to Mwanza to the south of the Lake.

196. That is Uganda?—Yes, Uganda, and then to the South of the Lake to German East Africa.

197. You have had a good deal of experience of Africa and the Tropics? Yos.

198. I think you have had a draft list of the head- ings under which evidence of Witnesses is dentred. Could you give a brief general explanation of the organisation of the Medical and Sanitary Services of Nigeria now?—Yes, I think I could, Sir; well I have not been there, of course, since 1917.

199. You have been on War service?—I have been on War servies, but, in those days the Medical and Sanitary Services in Nigeria were under the control of the Director. He had a principal medical officer for the Southern province of Nigeria, and one for the Northern province; he also had a senior sanitary officer for the Southern province, and cne for the Northern. The principal medical officer had Þis staff which dealt principally with station and district work, as apart from the purely sanitary work, although of course, very often at some stations he had to do both. The senior sanitary officer had charge of the matters more particularly from a sanitary point of view. The medical officers below the rank of Principal Medical Officer were Deputy Principal Medical Officers, Provincial Medical Off- cere, Senior Medical Officers, Medical Officers first grade and Medical Officers second grade. The Senior Sanitary Officer has his staff of sanitary officers. The Principal Medical Officers were mostly concerned with administrative medical work, the other members of the staff with the professional side. The senior sanitary officers administered the sanitary part, and the sanitary officers did the more practical part of the work.

200. The Nigerian service is recruited entirely by appointment from England, is it not?—Yes, Sir; the European staff is appointed by the Secretary of State. The subordinate staff are native.

201. They are native? They are native. 202. Do you think the native elements could be in- creased, or not with advantage?—I think the Native of Africa is capable of doing a great deal more than perhaps he is allowed to do; that is my experience. I do not think that any native would make such a satisfactory officer as a European, but there are cor tain posts, I think, in certain districts which could be filled by a native medical officer; I think he would be capable of filling them.

203. If you had natives would you train them în a local Medical school, or would you let them come home to England ?They would have to come home to

England at present.

204. Would you give them appointments on the same footing as Europeans, or would they be quite a separate service?—A subordinate service at present.

205. Do you not think if they came home to England, and qualified in England, they would be discontented if when they went out they were not put on the same footing as Europeans?-I think very likely they would,

206. Yet you think it preferable to train them in England? We have not opportunities of training them out there, Sir.

207. I know you have not, but they might be created, might they not?--Yes, I think they might be. 208. In Hong Kong, they have a local medical school, and in the Straits too, I think?—I think it is quite pomible if one had a very busy centre they might be trained.

203. Would you put them in posts where they would have to attend on Europeans as well as natives?_-] think it depends on the size of the post. A post, for example, like Epe I think could be run by a native medical officer.

210. You mean posts where there are only two or three Europeans?—Yes.

211. And all the others are antiven?-Yea

212. It is unnecessary to have a European medical officer just for those two or three Europeans? Well, I do not say that you have rather got me in a corner; I would much prefer to have a European medical officer, because the work would really be better done, but if you are busy the native could do it.

219. Would you pay them loss, and therefore the Government would have more men? I do not think

we have yet arrived at the stage when they should he put quite on an equality, Sir.

214. Do you consider the conditions of service, salary, private practice, leave, pension, etc., are

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