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HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
The existing fees for liquor and club liquor licences were effected on 1 February 1990. Under the existing Council's policy, all fees for licences are to be reviewed annually in order to recover deficits incurred upon administration. This year, if these fees remain unchanged, the Liquor Licensing Board will incur a deficit of about $0.6 million in the licensing and control of these businesses.
The increase has been carefully considered by the Liquor Licensing Board and the Standing Committee of the Whole Council, and I am satisfied that due weight has been given to all implications of the proposal.
Sir, I beg to move.
MR. TONG KAM-BIU, VICE-CHAIRMAN OF THE LIQUOR LICENSING BOARD seconded the motion (in Cantonese):—Mr. Chairman, I second the motion.
The question was put.
The motion was carried unanimously.
6. MR. B. A. BERNACCHI, moved the following motion:-
'Until the Council has more General Duties Teams on duty in the surrounds of markets, these teams should concentrate more in dispersing the itinerant hawkers (with or without a licence) than in arresting them which at present, involves leaving the market to take the hawker to the police station to charge him. However, this is not meant to restrict the General Duties Teams from arresting a hawker where they consider it appropriate.'
He said (in English): Mr. Chairman, I rise to move the motion that stands in my name on today's order paper.
The reason for the motion is because of the situation on the ground as I see it in my own constituency of Shau Kei Wan and Chai Wan. I am sure, however, that it is the same in a lot of other urban markets. We are extremely short of manpower to control persons, including itinerant hawkers with or without a licence and/or trading off pitch, hawking at the entrances and in the surrounds of Urban Council markets. Indeed, I once asked an U.S.D. official in Chai Wan, what he considered necessary to establish proper control, and he said ‘at least two more full time General Purpose Teams'. However, we will have to make do with the GD Teams as they are, on the ground, at least for the foreseeable future, particularly as we have now accepted the same principle as Government, of nil growth. Indeed, our whole future financial resources and commitments, unfortunately have to be based on that assumption.
It is with this background that I, aided indeed particularly by certain market stall holders from the markets in my constituency, have come up with a possible partial solution, namely that these GD Teams should concentrate more on dispersing these itinerant hawkers than arresting them, whilst at the same time not restricting the General Duties Teams from arresting a hawker where they consider it appropriate. Why do I say this?-Partly at least because the police have refused us our own charging room, the arrested hawkers together with people from a GD Team, have to line up with all the other people being charged with pick-pocketing, larceny and more serious crimes! Thus, if the GD Teams make arrests, they are outside the market for about 5 to 10 minutes and inside the police station probably for more than an hour thereafter. Of course, whilst the GD Teams line up with all these other people in order to charge the hawkers that they have managed to 'bag' in these brief visits to the markets, the other hawkers left surrounding the markets, are free to do the business, taking away customers from those market stall holders (who pay considerably more rental for the stalls), inside the markets.
This makes for a vicious circle, many of the stall-holders themselves have to use their market-stalls for storage purposes and join the others illegally outside the market to hawk there. Nevertheless, I have found the Hong Kong citizens usually obey a direction from a public officer to disperse. Therefore I consider that the GD Teams, with the shortage in numbers at present, would be far more effective in dispersing the hawkers illegally surrounding the markets, than their present brief visits which, although resulting in the arrest of some less fortunate persons, leave the remainder free to carry on their illegal hawking.
For all these reasons, I submit that as a matter of policy, at present, the Council should make clear to the GD Teams that they should concentrate more on dispersing the itinerant hawkers rather than in arresting them.
Sir, I so move.
MISS CECILIA L. Y. YEUNG (in Cantonese):—Mr. Chairman, I second the motion.
MR. FREDERICK K. K. FUNG (in Cantonese):—Mr. Chairman, I think I have to clarify two questions regarding this motion before voting. Firstly, what is the purpose of this motion? Is it trying to improve our control of hawkers, or is it trying to save manpower of the GD Teams? So, I think there are some confusions with regard to this point. Secondly, it is the responsibility of the GD Teams to effect hawker control. If they are able to arrest illegal hawkers, it will be a deterrent effect. It needs to be further considered which one is better if the GD Teams can only disperse hawkers or they can take both actions to disperse and arrest. Thirdly, the last sentence of the motion states that: 'However, this is not meant to restrict the General Duties Teams from arresting a hawker where they consider it appropriate.' So, I think the motion itself is not very strongly against arresting hawkers. May I therefore suggest that we take this question to the Markets and Street Traders Select Committee for detailed discussion to try and find out the best method of hawker control? What is proposed today does not really suggest anything which is very different from what we are doing now.
MR. STEPHEN M. L. LAU (in Cantonese):-Mr. Chairman, I have a lot of reservations regarding Mr. BERNACCHI's motion. One obvious point is that two years ago we looked into this issue very carefully and at that time a lot of...
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HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
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8
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
The existing fees for liquor and club liquor licences were effected on 1 February 1990. Under the existing Council's policy, all fees for licences are to be reviewed annually in order to recover deficits incurred upon administration. This year, if these fees remain unchanged, the Liquor Licensing Board will incur a deficit of about $0.6 million in the licensing and control of these businesses.
The increase has been carefully considered by the Liquor Licensing Board and the Standing Committee of the Whole Council, and I am satisfied that due weight has been given to all implications of the proposal.
Sir, I beg to move.
MR. TONG KAM-BIU, VICE-CHAIRMAN OF THE LIQUOR LICENSING BOARD seconded the motion (in Cantonese):—Mr. Chairman, I second the motion.
The question was put.
The motion was carried unanimously.
6. MR. B. A. BERNACCHI, moved the following motion:-
'Until the Council has more General Duties Teams on duty in the surrounds of markets, these teams should concentrate more in dispersing the itinerant hawkers (with or without a licence) than in arresting them which at present, involves leaving the market to take the hawker to the police station to charge him. However, this is not meant to restrict the General Duties Teams from arresting a hawker where they consider it appropriate.'
He said (in English): Mr. Chairman, I rise to move the motion that stands in my name on today's order paper.
The reason for the motion is because of the situation on the ground as I see it in my own constituency of Shau Kei Wan and Chai Wan. I am sure, however, that it is the same in a lot of other urban markets. We are extremely short of manpower to control persons, including itinerant hawkers with or without a licence and/or trading off pitch, hawking at the entrances and in the surrounds of Urban Council markets. Indeed, I once asked an U.S.D. official in Chai Wan, what he considered necessary to establish proper control, and he said ‘at least two more full time General Purpose Teams'. However, we will have to make do with the GD Teams as they are, on the ground, at least for the foreseeable future, particularly as we have now accepted the same principle as Government, of nil growth. Indeed, our whole future financial resources and commitments, unfortunately have to be based on that assumption.
It is with this background that I, aided indeed particularly by certain market stall holders from the markets in my constituency, have come up with a possible partial solution, namely that these GD Teams should concentrate more on dispersing these itinerant hawkers than arresting them, whilst at the same time not restricting the General Duties Teams from arresting a hawker where they consider it appropriate. Why do I say this?-Partly at least because the police
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HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
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have refused us our own charging room, the arrested hawkers together with people from a GD Team, have to line up with all the other people being charged with pick-pocketing, larceny and more serious crimes! Thus, if the GD Teams make arrests, they are outside the market for about 5 to 10 minutes and inside the police station probably for more than an hour thereafter. Of course, whilst the GD Teams line up with all these other people in order to charge the hawkers that they have managed to 'bag' in these brief visits to the markets, the other hawkers left surrounding the markets, are free to do the business, taking away customers from those market stall holders (who pay considerably more rental for the stalls), inside the markets.
This makes for a vicious circle, many of the stall-holders themselves have to use their market-stalls for storage purposes and join the others illegally outside the market to hawk there. Nevertheless, I have found the Hong Kong citizens usually obey a direction from a public officer to disperse. Therefore I consider that the GD Teams, with the shortage in numbers at present, would be far more effective in dispersing the hawkers illegally surrounding the markets, than their present brief visits which, although resulting in the arrest of some less fortunate persons, leave the remainder free to carry on their illegal hawking.
For all these reasons, I submit that as a matter of policy, at present, the Council should make clear to the GD Teams that they should concentrate more on dispersing the itinerant hawkers rather than in arresting them.
Sir, I so move.
MISS CECILIA L. Y. YEUNG (in Cantonese):—Mr. Chairman, I second the motion.
MR. FREDERICK K. K. FUNG (in Cantonese):—Mr. Chairman, I think I have to clarify two questions regarding this motion before voting. Firstly, what is the purpose of this motion? Is it trying to improve our control of hawkers, or is it trying to save manpower of the GD Teams? So, I think there are some confusions with regard to this point. Secondly, it is the responsibility of the GD Teams to effect hawker control. If they are able to arrest illegal hawkers, it will be a deterrent effect. It needs to be further considered which one is better if the GD Teams can only disperse hawkers or they can take both actions to disperse and arrest. Thirdly, the last sentence of the motion states that: 'However, this is not meant to restrict the General Duties Teams from arresting a hawker where they consider it appropriate.' So, I think the motion itself is not very strongly against arresting hawkers. May I therefore suggest that we take this question to the Markets and Street Traders Select Committee for detailed discussion to try and find out the best method of hawker control? What is proposed today does not really suggest anything which is very different from what we are doing now.
MR. STEPHEN M. L. Lau (in Cantonese):-Mr. Chairman, I have a lot of reservations regarding Mr. BERNACCHI's motion. One obvious point is that two years ago we looked into this issue very carefully and at that time a lot of
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