1965 — Page 315

Urban Council Proceedings 市政局議事錄 All AI Reviewed

382

608

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

Page 315 of 382

609

simply having our recommendations swept aside by someone sitting in the Secretariat.

MR. FORSGATE:- Mr. Chairman, I would like to add my voice to emphasize what Dr. BELL has said. When we visited the beaches, the Urban Services Department staff in charge indicated that the improvements we would like to see carried out could be done by the permanent staff if the establishment on the beaches in existence and new beaches was increased; and we assured them, in all innocence, that we would bring our influence to bear so that the establishment was increased, with little effect it seems to me.

CHAIRMAN:- I should explain that these estimates are for the Urban Areas, not for the New Territories. (Laughter).

DR. BELL: Mr. Chairman, may I ask you whether in fact you have increased the attendants for the New Territories?

CHAIRMAN:- I think so, but I will be glad to let you have the information separately after this meeting.

MR. BERNACCHI:- Mr. Chairman, in view of the number of criticisms on this year's analysis of staff increases, I would move that this paper be referred to the Standing Committee of the Whole Council.

MR. SALES: Sir, I second that motion.

COMMUNICATION FROM THE CHAIRMAN.

Arising out of question No. 10 at the meeting of this Council on 4th January of this year, which was asked by Mr. BERNACCHI concerning the case of Mr. CHEUNG Shue-kai who was injured in a collision with an Urban Services vehicle in September 1963, Mr. BERNACCHI asked in a supplementary question if I would inform Members at this public meeting whether it is necessary for criminal proceedings against a driver to be concluded before starting a civil action.

The matter was referred to the Colonial Secretary. I am instructed to say that I have been informed that the Legal Department has replied to Mr. BERNACCHI direct.

MR. BERNACCHI:- Mr. Chairman, with your permission I will read out the Legal Department's reply.

The first paragraph is only an introductory, and I will leave that out, and I will read the second paragraph.

"I am instructed that you asked the Chairman whether it was necessary for criminal proceedings against the driver to be concluded before starting a civil action. The Chairman in reply stated that this was a question of law on which he was not competent to express an opinion. He stated however that he would seek permission to answer your question at the next meeting. As I am sure you will appreciate, it is no part of the function of these Chambers"—that is the Attorney General's Chambers "to advise persons other than Government officers on questions of law. However, as a matter of courtesy, may I suggest that you will find the answer to your question in the principles laid down at the beginning of Chapter 2 of the 14th Edition of Salmond on Tort page 9 and the cases and authorities to which reference is therein made."

Now the first question I would like to ask is, is it the opinion of Government that Members of this Council should not derive the benefit of the Attorney General's advice?

MR. HU:- You know the book, why didn't you bring the book along with you? (Laughter).

MR. BERNACCHI:- I am leading up to that question later. (Laughter).

MR. SALES:- Sir, this is the examination-in-chief. (Laughter).

CHAIRMAN:- Sir, I have nothing to add to the reply which I have already given to you.

MR. BERNACCHI:- Mr. Chairman, I must press you. Is the reply that you have already given to me, coupled with this passage from the letter that you quoted as being received by me, to be inferred that Members of this Council are not to enjoy the privilege of being advised by the Attorney General, who is the Government's Legal Adviser, and we as a Council are a Council of Government?

MR. SALES:- Sir, is the Attorney General perhaps disputing the fact that this is a Council of Government?

CHAIRMAN: Sir, I have nothing to add to the reply which I have already made. (Laughter). I am not competent to add anything to the opinion already given by the Legal Department.

MR. BERNACCHI:- Then, Sir, perhaps you would inquire further from the appropriate authorities in Government the answer to my friend Mr. SALES' question?

CHAIRMAN:- I will be glad to do so.

MR. BERNACCHI:- The second thing is of course, that I asked a question as a member of the Council. Whether or not I knew the answer, or should know the answer, is neither here nor there, but as

Page 315

Page 316

Edit History

2026-05-13 22:09:44 · NVIDIA / meta/llama-4-maverick-17b-128e-instruct

Live

View comparison

AI Proofread

382 608 HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL Page 315 of 382 609 simply having our recommendations swept aside by someone sitting in the Secretariat. MR. FORSGATE:- Mr. Chairman, I would like to add my voice to emphasize what Dr. BELL has said. When we visited the beaches, the Urban Services Department staff in charge indicated that the improvements we would like to see carried out could be done by the permanent staff if the establishment on the beaches in existence and new beaches was increased; and we assured them, in all innocence, that we would bring our influence to bear so that the establishment was increased, with little effect it seems to me. CHAIRMAN:- I should explain that these estimates are for the Urban Areas, not for the New Territories. (Laughter). DR. BELL: Mr. Chairman, may I ask you whether in fact you have increased the attendants for the New Territories? CHAIRMAN:- I think so, but I will be glad to let you have the information separately after this meeting. MR. BERNACCHI:- Mr. Chairman, in view of the number of criticisms on this year's analysis of staff increases, I would move that this paper be referred to the Standing Committee of the Whole Council. MR. SALES: Sir, I second that motion. COMMUNICATION FROM THE CHAIRMAN. Arising out of question No. 10 at the meeting of this Council on 4th January of this year, which was asked by Mr. BERNACCHI concerning the case of Mr. CHEUNG Shue-kai who was injured in a collision with an Urban Services vehicle in September 1963, Mr. BERNACCHI asked in a supplementary question if I would inform Members at this public meeting whether it is necessary for criminal proceedings against a driver to be concluded before starting a civil action. The matter was referred to the Colonial Secretary. I am instructed to say that I have been informed that the Legal Department has replied to Mr. BERNACCHI direct. MR. BERNACCHI:- Mr. Chairman, with your permission I will read out the Legal Department's reply. The first paragraph is only an introductory, and I will leave that out, and I will read the second paragraph. "I am instructed that you asked the Chairman whether it was necessary for criminal proceedings against the driver to be concluded before starting a civil action. The Chairman in reply stated that this was a question of law on which he was not competent to express an opinion. He stated however that he would seek permission to answer your question at the next meeting. As I am sure you will appreciate, it is no part of the function of these Chambers"—that is the Attorney General's Chambers "to advise persons other than Government officers on questions of law. However, as a matter of courtesy, may I suggest that you will find the answer to your question in the principles laid down at the beginning of Chapter 2 of the 14th Edition of Salmond on Tort page 9 and the cases and authorities to which reference is therein made." Now the first question I would like to ask is, is it the opinion of Government that Members of this Council should not derive the benefit of the Attorney General's advice? MR. HU:- You know the book, why didn't you bring the book along with you? (Laughter). MR. BERNACCHI:- I am leading up to that question later. (Laughter). MR. SALES:- Sir, this is the examination-in-chief. (Laughter). CHAIRMAN:- Sir, I have nothing to add to the reply which I have already given to you. MR. BERNACCHI:- Mr. Chairman, I must press you. Is the reply that you have already given to me, coupled with this passage from the letter that you quoted as being received by me, to be inferred that Members of this Council are not to enjoy the privilege of being advised by the Attorney General, who is the Government's Legal Adviser, and we as a Council are a Council of Government? MR. SALES:- Sir, is the Attorney General perhaps disputing the fact that this is a Council of Government? CHAIRMAN: Sir, I have nothing to add to the reply which I have already made. (Laughter). I am not competent to add anything to the opinion already given by the Legal Department. MR. BERNACCHI:- Then, Sir, perhaps you would inquire further from the appropriate authorities in Government the answer to my friend Mr. SALES' question? CHAIRMAN:- I will be glad to do so. MR. BERNACCHI:- The second thing is of course, that I asked a question as a member of the Council. Whether or not I knew the answer, or should know the answer, is neither here nor there, but as Page 315 Page 316

Baseline (Original)

382 608 HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL Page 315 of 382 609 simply having our recommendations swept aside by someone sitting in the Secretariat. MR. FORSGATE:-Mr. Chairman, I would like to add my voice to emphasize what Dr. BELL has said. When we visited the beaches, the Urban Services Department staff in charge indicated that the improve- ments we would like to see carried out could be done by the permanent staff if the establishment on the beaches in existence and new beaches was increased; and we assured them, in all innocence, that we would bring our influence to bear so that the establishment was increased, with little effect it seems to me. CHAIRMAN:-I should explain that these estimates are for the Urban Areas, not for the New Territories. (Laughter). DR. BELL: Mr. Chairman, may I ask you whether in fact you have increased the attendants for the New Territories? CHAIRMAN:-I think so, but I will be glad to let you have the information separately after this meeting. MR. BERNACCHI:-Mr. Chairman, in view of the number of criti- cisms on this year's analysis of staff increases, I would move that this paper be referred to the Standing Committee of the Whole Council. MR. SALES: Sir, I second that motion. COMMUNICATION FROM THE CHAIRMAN. Arising out of question No. 10 at the meeting of this Council on 4th January of this year, which was asked by Mr. BERNACCHI con- cerning the case of Mr. CHEUNG Shue-kai who was injured in a collision with an Urban Services vehicle in September 1963, Mr. BERNACCHI asked in a supplementary question if I would inform Members at this public meeting whether it is necessary for criminal proceedings against a driver to be concluded before starting a civil action. The matter was referred to the Colonial Secretary. I am instructed to say that I have been informed that the Legal Department has replied to Mr. BERNACCHI direct. MR. BERNACCHI:-Mr. Chairman, with your permission I will read out the Legal Department's reply. The first paragraph is only an introductory, and I will leave that out, and I will read the second paragraph. "I am instructed that you asked the Chairman whether it was necessary for criminal proceedings against the driver to be con- cluded before starting a civil action. The Chairman in reply stated that this was a question of law on which he was not competent to express an opinion. He stated however that he would seek per- mission to answer your question at the next meeting. As I am sure you will appreciate, it is no part of the function of these Chambers"--that is the Attorney General's Chambers "to advise persons other than Government officers on questions of law. How- ever, as a matter of courtesy, may I suggest that you will find the answer to your question in the principles laid down at the beginning of Chapter 2 of the 14th Edition of Salmond on Tort page 9 and the cases and authorities to which reference is therein made." Now the first question I would like to ask is, is it the opinion of Government that Members of this Council should not derive the benefit of the Attorney General's advice? MR. HU:-You know the book, why didn't you bring the book along with you? (Laughter). MR. BERNACCHI :---I am leading up to that question later. (Laughter). MR. SALES: -Sir, this is the examination-in-chief. (Laughter). CHAIRMAN:-Sir, I have nothing to add to the reply which I have already given to you. MR. BERNACCHI:-Mr. Chairman, I must press you. Is the reply that you have already given to me, coupled with this passage from the letter that you quoted as being received by me, to be inferred that Members of this Council are not to enjoy the privilege of being advised by the Attorney General, who is the Government's Legal Adviser, and we as a Council are a Council of Government? MR. SALES:-Sir, is the Attorney General perhaps disputing the fact that this is a Council of Government? CHAIRMAN: Sir, I have nothing to add to the reply which I have already made. (Laughter). I am not competent to add anything to the opinion already given by the Legal Department. MR. BERNACCHI:-Then, Sir, perhaps you would inquire further from the appropriate authorities in Government the answer to my friend Mr. SALES' question? CHAIRMAN:-I will be glad to do so. MR. BERNACCHI:-The second thing is of course, that I asked a question as a member of the Council. Whether or not I knew the answer, or should know the answer, is neither here nor there, but as Page 315Page 316

2026-05-13 22:09:44 · Baseline

View content

382

608

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

Page 315 of 382

609

simply having our recommendations swept aside by someone sitting in the Secretariat.

MR. FORSGATE:-Mr. Chairman, I would like to add my voice to emphasize what Dr. BELL has said. When we visited the beaches, the Urban Services Department staff in charge indicated that the improve- ments we would like to see carried out could be done by the permanent staff if the establishment on the beaches in existence and new beaches was increased; and we assured them, in all innocence, that we would bring our influence to bear so that the establishment was increased, with little effect it seems to me.

CHAIRMAN:-I should explain that these estimates are for the Urban Areas, not for the New Territories. (Laughter).

DR. BELL: Mr. Chairman, may I ask you whether in fact you have increased the attendants for the New Territories?

CHAIRMAN:-I think so, but I will be glad to let you have the information separately after this meeting.

MR. BERNACCHI:-Mr. Chairman, in view of the number of criti- cisms on this year's analysis of staff increases, I would move that this paper be referred to the Standing Committee of the Whole Council.

MR. SALES: Sir, I second that motion.

COMMUNICATION FROM THE CHAIRMAN.

Arising out of question No. 10 at the meeting of this Council on 4th January of this year, which was asked by Mr. BERNACCHI con- cerning the case of Mr. CHEUNG Shue-kai who was injured in a collision with an Urban Services vehicle in September 1963, Mr. BERNACCHI asked in a supplementary question if I would inform Members at this public meeting whether it is necessary for criminal proceedings against a driver to be concluded before starting a civil action.

The matter was referred to the Colonial Secretary. I am instructed to say that I have been informed that the Legal Department has replied to Mr. BERNACCHI direct.

MR. BERNACCHI:-Mr. Chairman, with your permission I will read out the Legal Department's reply.

The first paragraph is only an introductory, and I will leave that out, and I will read the second paragraph.

"I am instructed that you asked the Chairman whether it was necessary for criminal proceedings against the driver to be con- cluded before starting a civil action. The Chairman in reply stated

that this was a question of law on which he was not competent to express an opinion. He stated however that he would seek per- mission to answer your question at the next meeting. As I am sure you will appreciate, it is no part of the function of these Chambers"--that is the Attorney General's Chambers "to advise persons other than Government officers on questions of law. How- ever, as a matter of courtesy, may I suggest that you will find the answer to your question in the principles laid down at the beginning of Chapter 2 of the 14th Edition of Salmond on Tort page 9 and the cases and authorities to which reference is therein made."

Now the first question I would like to ask is, is it the opinion of Government that Members of this Council should not derive the benefit of the Attorney General's advice?

MR. HU:-You know the book, why didn't you bring the book along with you? (Laughter).

MR. BERNACCHI :---I am leading up to that question later. (Laughter).

MR. SALES: -Sir, this is the examination-in-chief. (Laughter). CHAIRMAN:-Sir, I have nothing to add to the reply which I have already given to you.

MR. BERNACCHI:-Mr. Chairman, I must press you. Is the reply that you have already given to me, coupled with this passage from the letter that you quoted as being received by me, to be inferred that Members of this Council are not to enjoy the privilege of being advised by the Attorney General, who is the Government's Legal Adviser, and we as a Council are a Council of Government?

MR. SALES:-Sir, is the Attorney General perhaps disputing the fact that this is a Council of Government?

CHAIRMAN: Sir, I have nothing to add to the reply which I have already made. (Laughter). I am not competent to add anything to the opinion already given by the Legal Department.

MR. BERNACCHI:-Then, Sir, perhaps you would inquire further from the appropriate authorities in Government the answer to my friend Mr. SALES' question?

CHAIRMAN:-I will be glad to do so.

MR. BERNACCHI:-The second thing is of course, that I asked a question as a member of the Council. Whether or not I knew the answer, or should know the answer, is neither here nor there, but as

1965 — Page 315

Edit History

Comments

Private Research Note