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HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
I have been referred to the 14th Edition of Salmond on Tort—I think the Attorney General's library is the only library that has the 14th Edition. I have the 12th Edition myself—but I found the page—I would give this Council the results I have obtained from the page in question, and that is this:
"Speaking generally in all such cases the civil and criminal remedies are not alternative but concurrent, each being independent of the other."
And, Sir, the Attorney General has not seen fit to give a reply on behalf of Government, I will see fit to interpret the passage I have just read as meaning that in accident cases it is not necessary for a person to delay taking civil proceedings whilst criminal proceedings are still pending.
MR. HU—May I ask one question. What is the point of Mr. BERNACCHI asking this question of the Chairman? Would you like to take civil proceedings as soon as possible? (Laughter).
MR. BERNACCHI:—Sir, if I may reply, I think perhaps Mr. Hu thinks he is still in court, where he is my opponent. (Laughter). Of course, this question arose from a supplementary question that I asked over the case of CHEUNG Shue-kai who had his civil action dismissed because he was out of time in bringing it against the Government under a certain ordinance, and the reason why he delayed in bringing it was that he waited for criminal proceedings against the driver to be concluded first.
MR. SALES:—Mr. Chairman, may I with your permission suggest that as far as this Council is concerned, we are not going to allow ourselves to be involved in legal disputes among the ranks of the Elected Members, not even within the ranks of the Reform Club. I suggest that as far as this Council is concerned, the question at issue is the one which I put to you. Is the Attorney General disputing the fact that this is a Council of Government? And to that question we must seek a reply. It is a fundamental issue.
MR. CHEONG-LEEN:—Mr. Chairman, on a point of clarification, did you not at some time in the recent past, tell members of this Council that this is a Council of Government?
CHAIRMAN:—Sir, I am sure I did. It is a statutory body set up by the Legislature.
MR. CHEONG-LEEN:—In that event, Sir, would you be good enough, when referring Mr. SALES' question to the Attorney General, to point this very fact out?
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
611
QUESTIONS.
(1) DR. R. H. S. LEE asked the following question:
Is the Chairman aware that housewives patronizing the Yau Ma Tei Market complain of the general unhygienic condition and wetness of the market? Why are live turkeys allowed to wander free and foul the public area without control? What steps does he intend to take to rectify these shortcomings?
MR. WILFRED S. B. WONG, CHAIRMAN OF THE MARKETS SELECT COMMITTEE, replied as follows:
In the nature of things, markets are not as clean and tidy places as shops. The commodities sold, the great volume of business done, and the way in which it is done, make it practically impossible to keep the ground surfaces clean and dry, particularly in the fish section. As a hygiene measure, swabbing down the floors takes place at certain times of day, thus adding to the wetness of the market, although this is arranged for quiet periods. The market staff have again been reminded to do their utmost to keep markets as dry and as clean as they possibly can.
Live turkeys are not permitted to wander about in a market. I understand that it is the practice that live turkeys are only sold in markets two or three days before Christmas, and that it is usual not to keep them in cages, because of their size, but to tie them by the leg to some part of the stall. It appears, Mr. Chairman, that Dr. LEE has seen or been informed of an accident in which a turkey broke loose. If they had been noticed by market staff or the stallholder, they would have been resecured. Naturally, the owner would not willingly allow a bird to go free and lose it.
DR. LEE:—Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask some supplementary questions arising out of this answer. First, I wonder if you would be good enough to ask the staff to review modern procedures for cleaning markets, and thus avoid this continual wetness that I have encountered on visiting the markets? I have visited the market more than once, and I would draw your attention to the fact that it is not only the fish section which is wet, but every section. These are not only wet, but they give off objectionable smells, even after cleaning. Secondly, this particular turkey, or turkeys, had not escaped from a cage or been tied to some place, but were allowed to run about. I saw them myself, about a week before Christmas, not the first two days before Christmas. Nothing was used to control the movement of the birds, and, as a matter…
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Page 316 of 382
610
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
I have been referred to the 14th Edition of Salmond on Tort-I think the Attorney General's library is the only library that has the 14th Edition I have the 12th Edition myself-but I found the page-I would give this Council the results I have obtained from the page in question, and that is this:
"Speaking generally in all such cases the civil and criminal remedies are not alternative but concurrent, each being independent of the other."
and as, Sir, the Attorney General has not seen fit to give a reply on behalf of Government, I will see fit to interpret the passage I have just read as meaning that in accident cases it is not necessary for a person to delay taking civil proceedings whilst criminal proceedings are still pending.
MR. HU-May I ask one question. What is the point of Mr. BERNACCHI asking this question of the Chairman? Would you like to take civil proceedings as soon as possible? (Laughter).
MR. BERNACCHI:-Sir, if I may reply, I think perhaps Mr. Hu thinks he is still in court, where he is my opponent. (Laughter). Of course this question arose from a supplementary question that I asked over the case of CHEUNG Shue-kai who had his civil action dismissed because he was out of time in bringing it against the Government under a certain ordinance, and the reason why he delayed in bringing it was that he waited for criminal proceedings against the driver to be con- cluded first.
MR. SALES: -Mr. Chairman, may I with your permission suggest that as far as this Council is concerned, we are not going to allow ourselves to be involved in legal disputes among the ranks of the Elected Members, not even within the ranks of the Reform Club. I suggest that as far as this Council is concerned, the question at issue is the one which I put to you. Is the Attorney General disputing the fact that this is a Council of Government? And to that question we must seek a reply. It is a fundamental issue.
MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, on a point of clarification, did you not at some time in the recent past, tell members of this Council that this is a Council of Government?
CHAIRMAN:-Sir, I am sure I did. It is a statutory body set up by the Legislature.
MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-In that event, Sir, would you be good enough, when referring Mr. SALES' question to the Attorney General, to point this very fact out?
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
611
QUESTIONS.
(1) DR. R. H. S. LEE asked the following question:
Is the Chairman aware that housewives patronizing the Yau Ma Tei Market complain of the general unhygienic con- dition and wetness of the market? Why are live turkeys allowed to wander free and foul the public area without control? What steps does he intend to take to rectify these shortcomings?
MR. WILFRED S. B. WONG, CHAIRMAN OF THE MARKETS SELECT COMMITTEE, replied as follows:-
In the nature of things markets are not as clean and tidy places as shops. The commodities sold, the great volume of business done, and the way in which it is done, make it practically impossible to keep the ground surfaces clean and dry, particularly in the fish section. As a hygiene measure, swabbing down the floors takes place at certain times of day, thus adding to the wetness of the market, although this is arranged for quiet periods. The market staff have again been reminded to do their utmost to keep markets as dry and as clean as they possibly can.
Live turkeys are not permitted to wander about in a market. I understand that it is the practice that live turkeys are only sold in markets two or three days before Christmas, and that it is usual not to keep them in cages, because of their size, but to tie them by the leg to some part of the stall. It appears, Mr. Chairman, that Dr. LEE has seen or been informed of an accident in which a turkey broke loose. If they had been noticed by market staff or the stallholder they would have been resecured. Naturally the owner would not willingly allow a bird to go free and lose it.
DR. LEE:-Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask some supplementary questions arising out of this answer. First, I wonder if you would be good enough to ask the staff to review modern procedures for cleaning markets, and thus avoid this continual wetness that I have encountered on visiting the markets? I have visited the market more than once, and I would draw your attention to the fact that it is not only the fish section which is wet, but every section. These are not only wet, but it give off objectionable smells, even after cleaning. Secondly, this particular turkey, or turkeys, had not escaped from a cage or been tied to some place, but were allowed to run about. I saw them myself, about a week before Christmas, not the first two days before Christmas. Nothing was used to control the movement of the birds and, as a matter
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