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I would like my remarks made known to Government, and again with the appeal that they do not be watered down in the process.
MR. HU: Sir, if I remember correctly, I was present on the 11th December at the meeting of the Estimates Select Committee. I would like to ask you, Sir, what was the point in having two representatives of the Establishment Branch present?
CHAIRMAN: As I recollect, they were present in order to clarify any points which Members of the Select Committee were in doubt.
MR. HU: Sir, I think they should take into consideration the views expressed by that Select Committee. They should take into consideration the views—the general views expressed by that Select Committee. I remember very well that in the Select Committee it was expressed very strongly that the pest control labourers should be approved. This was expressed very strongly, not only by me, but by Mr. Wilson WANG and also Mr. MARDEN who is not here today. He was the Chairman. Only 16 posts have been approved, so what was the point of having members of the Establishment Branch to be present in our Select Committee meeting? What was the point of our wasting time speaking to them? It is ridiculous. I would say that these formalities waste our time and waste the civil servants' time. What is the point of that? We feel very strongly about these posts, and we want pest control labourers increased.
MR. BERNACCHI: Mr. Chairman, Sir, I would like to elaborate on Mr. Hu's remarks. If I remember rightly, Government requested these two gentlemen that Mr. Hu is referring to, to attend the meeting of the Estimates Select Committee, almost as a sop to our complaint last year that Government had reduced the estimates without referring back to us, and I would like to endorse Mr. Hu's remarks that there is no point at all in these two gentlemen attending the Select Committee if the end result is exactly the same.
I must now elaborate on my own theme, and that is the Hawker Control Force. The Hawker Control Force badly needs re-organizing. I see in the analysis that the Corporal rank is only to be increased by four, whereas the Constable rank is to be increased by 26. In my opinion, and I must stress it again, the Constable rank should be used as a training rank, and the men on the beat should have the rank, privileges and pay of a Corporal, as has been done in other services in Hong Kong. I do stress to this Council and to Government that the Hawker Control Force, in my opinion, will never be an efficient body unless it is drastically re-organized, and the terms of service are made such as to attract men of the highest quality, both in efficiency and in integrity. I would also like to point out that there is no clear control, police control, over unlicensed hawkers. The Hawker Control Force
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
as it is at present constituted, cannot possibly control unlicensed hawkers, and if the Police do not give effective control over unlicensed hawkers, is any hawker justified in taking out an Urban Council licence at all? Let us abolish pedlar hawker licences altogether, or let the police control unlicensed hawking so that the hawker appreciates the advantage of taking out the $20 hawker licence to peddle his wares.
Again, if we are to control unlicensed hawkers the Hawker Control Force needs to be drastically increased, and re-organized, and I repeat my words, so that we can obtain men of the highest quality, both in efficiency and in integrity.
MR. LO: Sir, with reference to tractor drivers, I would like to draw your attention to one of the recommendations which the Ad Hoc Beach Committee will be making. You will recall that some time ago an Ad Hoc Beach Committee was appointed by the Urban Amenities Select Committee to look into the beaches on the Island. This Committee went round and inspected many of the beaches. With regard to Repulse Bay Beach, one of the complaints has been the number of rocks and stones that are being found along the beach, and it is one of the Committee's recommendations that the Department should purchase a bulldozer or a tractor for scraping up all these loose rocks, dumping them into a truck, and having them carted away. So, it will save a good deal of time and labour, and if our recommendation is accepted then there certainly will be some need of tractor drivers. Although the report has not been sent in to you, I would like to draw your attention to this fact at this time, so you may bear this in mind when it comes to the engagement of tractor drivers.
DR. BELL: Mr. Chairman, I was also going to refer to the question of reduction in beach attendants, dressing room attendants, park keepers and labourers. During the summer, Mr. Li Yiu-bor, Mr. FORSGATE and myself, visited all the beaches in the New Territories, and we also made recommendations for new beaches to be gazetted. I wonder whether these points had been put forward when the estimates had been drawn up, because obviously more beaches are going to require more attendants and staff, and more labourers in order to put them in order in the initial stages. Swimming is one of the main attractions, well above all the other recreations in the Colony, and I think that to cut down on this particular group of people is very inadvisable. Every year we have accidents at the beaches, drownings, and so on, and I think the more attendants that we have the better. The beaches we visited last summer were all under-staffed for the number of people using them. I think that was brought out in our report and I would stress again, as Mr. Hu has done, that it seems pointless having these committees, spending a lot of time going round seeing these places, making recommendations for them, and
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Page 314 of 382
606
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I would like my remarks made known to Government, and again with the appeal that they do not be watered down in the process.
MR. HU: Sir, if I remember correctly, I was present on the 11th December at the meeting of the Estimates Select Committee. I would like to ask you, Sir, what was the point in having two representatives of the Establishment Branch present?
CHAIRMAN:-As I recollect, they were present in order to clarify any points which Members of the Select Committee were in doubt.
MR. HU: --Sir, I think they should take into consideration the views expressed by that Select Committee. They should take into consideration the views-the general views expressed by that Select Committee. I remember very well that in the Select Committee it was expressed very strongly that the pest control labourers should be approved. This was expressed very strongly, not only by me, but by Mr. Wilson WANG and also Mr. MARDEN who is not here today. He was the Chairman. Only 16 posts have been approved, so what was the point of having members of the Establishment Branch to be present in our Select Committee meeting? What was the point of our wasting time speaking to them? It is ridiculous. I would say that these formalities waste our time and waste the civil servants' time. What is the point of that? We feel very strongly about these posts, and we want pest control labourers increased.
MR. BERNACCHI:-Mr. Chairman, Sir, I would like to elaborate on Mr. Hu's remarks. If I remember rightly, Government requested these two gentlemen that Mr. Hu is referring to, to attend the meeting of the Estimates Select Committee, almost as a sop to our complaint last year that Government had reduced the estimates without referring back to us, and I would like to endorse Mr. Hu's remarks that there is no point at all in these two gentlemen attending the Select Com- mittee if the end result is exactly the same.
I must now elaborate on my own theme, and that is the Hawker Control Force. The Hawker Control Force badly needs re-organizing. I see in the analysis that the Corporal rank is only to be increased by four, whereas the Constable rank is to be increased by 26. In my opinion, and I must stress it again, the Constable rank should be used as a training rank, and the men on the beat should have the rank, privileges and pay of a Corporal, as has been done in other services in Hong Kong. I do stress to this Council and to Government that the Hawker Control Force, in my opinion, will never be an efficient body unless it is drastically re-organized, and the terms of service are made such as to attract men of the highest quality, both in efficiency and in integrity. I would also like to point out that there is no clear control, police control, over unlicensed hawkers. The Hawker Control Force
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
607
as it is at present constituted, cannot possibly control unlicensed hawkers, and if the Police do not give effective control over unlicensed hawkers, is any hawker justified in taking out an Urban Council licence at all? Let us abolish pedlar hawker licences altogether, or let the police control unlicensed hawking so that the hawker appreciates the advantage of taking out the $20 hawker licence to peddle his wares.
Again, if we are to control unlicensed hawkers the Hawker Control Force needs to be drastically increased, and re-organized, and I repeat my words, so that we can obtain men of the highest quality, both in efficiency and in integrity.
MR. Lo:-Sir, with reference to tractor drivers, I would like to draw your attention to one of the recommendations which the Ad Hoc Beach Committee will be making. You will recall that some time ago an Ad Hoc Beach Committee was appointed by the Urban Amenities Select Committee to look into the beaches on the Island. This Com- mittee went round and inspected many of the beaches. With regard to Repulse Bay Beach, one of the complaints has been the number of rocks and stones that are being found along the beach, and it is one of the Committee's recommendations that the Department should purchase a bull dozer or a tractor for scraping up all these loose rocks, In doing dumping them into a truck, and having them carted away.
so, it will save a good deal of time and labour, and if our recommenda- tion is accepted then there certainly will be some need of tractor drivers. Although the report has not been sent in to you, I would like to draw your attention to this fact at this time, so you may bear this in mind when it comes to the engagement of tractor drivers.
DR. BELL: Mr. Chairman, I was also going to refer to the question of reduction in beach attendants, dressing room attendants, park keepers and labourers. During the summer, Mr. Li Yiu-bor, Mr. FORSGATE and myself, visited all the beaches in the New Territories, and we also made recommendations for new beaches to be gazetted. I wonder whether these points had been put forward when the estimates had been drawn up, because obviously more beaches are going to require more attendants and staff, and more labourers in order to put them in order in the initial stages. Swimming is one of the main attractions, well above all the other recreations in the Colony, and I think that to cut down on this particular group of people is very inadvisable. Every year we have accidents at the beaches, drownings, and so on, and I think the more attendants that we have the better. The beaches we visited last summer were all under-staffed for the number of people using them. I think that was brought out in our report and I would stress again, as Mr. Hu has done, that it seems pointless having these committees, spending a lot of time going round seeing these places, making recommendations for them, and
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