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motion such as to read "that the Council urges the Legislative Council to enact suitable legislation to provide for an extension of the function of the Urban Council so as to empower the Urban Council the statutory rights on certain matters concerning education". I cannot fully agree that having one Council as the advisory body to His Excellency the Governor that it should rule out another Council to take the task of a part, if not the whole of the functions, of advising Government on educational matters. It is well known that many municipal and county councils in other cities do have a say on matters concerning education and some councils have limited functions confined to the management and supervision of municipal and county schools.
With the number of Government schools steadily increasing, one often hears of opinions calling for closer supervision of Government schools, particularly government primary schools. It may well be that this Council constituted as at it is at present is in the best position to serve as a supervisory body in the control and management of government schools, particularly government primary schools. This is one of the aspects which I think is worthy of our consideration. However, whatever our intention is, a more realistic approach would be for this Council first to make a fuller study of the matter prior to introducing the motion. It is for this reason that I, after consultations with my fellow Appointed Members, now move that the motion be referred to the Standing Committee of the Whole.
MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, on this point, may I ask clarification from Mr. Wilson WANG. Do I understand in the course (interrupted).
MR. BERNACCHI :-Mr. Chairman, on a point of order, no one can speak until it has been seconded. There is a motion to amend the motion.
MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, it is just on that point that I am seeking clarification. Do I understand from Mr. Wilson WANG'S speech that it is his intention to amend the motion at a later date?
MR. WILSON WANG:Mr. Chairman, I move that the motion be referred to the Standing Committee of the Whole.
CHAIRMAN:-This is not an amending motion.
MR. SALES: -It is a subsidiary motion.
CHAIRMAN: --Yes, quite so,
MRS. LI:-Mr. Chairman, I stand to second this motion that the motion, Mr. Wilson WANG's version, as it stands on a paper be referred to the Standing Committee. As I am a woman of action and few words I am not going to add any comments to Mr. WANG's speech, as enough has been said about the lack of education. My own feeling is that we have an ad hoc committee now studying the enlargement of the scope of the Council so I would therefore very much like to say that this motion be referred to the Standing Committee for further discussion.
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MR. BERNACCHI :-Mr. Chairman, I support this Motion. Since the substantive motion, first came before this Council, a lot has happened in the field of Education, in particular, the nominated members of the Legislative Council, except Mr. P. C. Woo (an old Reform Club Member of this Council), have voted for the White Paper like sheep, indeed, like "yes men", without even proposing that the White Paper be referred to their Standing Committee to be considered and revised, clause by clause. In my opinion, that makes the need for this Council to have some say in education all the more important. In my previous speech, I referred to the Reform Club's view that certain members of this Council should be our representatives on the Education Board, and I noted that the Proposer and Seconder of the present motion are, indeed, on the Education Advisory Board although not as representatives of this Council. With the passing of the White Paper in its present form and without any substantial amendments, this main motion has now reached far beyond the question of being a political gimmick, and if we pass this motion in Council to-day, more than likely, it will become a dead letter, because Government will not act upon it. On the other hand, if we accept that this motion be referred to the Standing Committee, in my experience, there is more chance of some useful results eventually emerging from this motion.
I am particularly horrified at the speech of the Financial Secretary on the debate of the White Paper on Education. In my opinion, the answer to his speech is "yes," we must introduce a progressive form of direct personal taxation-one income tax.
With these words, I do support that this Motion be referred to the Standing Committee. Particularly, to consider how best we can achieve the common object of having some say over educational policy, after all teachers (even in the N.T.) are eligible to vote. Yet, at present, we have no more say over education than we have over the introduction of direct personal taxation. Yet education is recognized as a municipal or Urban commitment in most places in the British Commonwealth.
MR. FUNG:--Mr. Chairman, as an Unofficial Member of the Legislative Council I feel I must not let the occasion pass without saying a word in defence of the Unofficial Members of the Legislative Council. I am referring particularly to the remarks made by my senior colleague, Mr. BERNACCHI, concerning the L.C. members. The views expressed by us in the debate on White Paper on Education represent not only our
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motion such as to read "that the Council urges the Legislative Council to enact suitable legislation to provide for an extension of the function of the Urban Council so as to empower the Urban Council the statutory rights on certain matters concerning education". I cannot fully agree that having one Council as the advisory body to His Excellency the Governor that it should rule out another Council to take the task of a part, if not the whole of the functions, of advising Government on educational matters. It is well known that many municipal and county councils in other cities do have a say on matters concerning education and some councils have limited functions confined to the management and supervision of municipal and county schools.
With the number of Government schools steadily increasing, one often hears of opinions calling for closer supervision of Government schools, particularly government primary schools. It may well be that this Council constituted as at it is at present is in the best position to serve as a supervisory body in the control and management of govern- ment schools, particularly government primary schools. This is one of the aspects which I think is worthy of our consideration. However, whatever our intention is, a more realistic approach would be for this Council first to make a fuller study of the matter prior to introducing the motion. It is for this reason that I, after consultations with my fellow Appointed Members, now move that the motion be referred to the Standing Committee of the Whole.
MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, on this point, may I ask clarification from Mr. Wilson WANG. Do I understand in the course
(interrupted).
MR. BERNACCHI :-Mr. Chairman, on a point of order, no one can speak until it has been seconded. There is a motion to amend the motion.
MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, it is just on that point that I am seeking clarification. Do I understand from Mr. Wilson WANG'S speech that it is his intention to amend the motion at a later date?
MR. WILSON WANG:Mr. Chairman, I move that the motion be referred to the Standing Committee of the Whole.
CHAIRMAN:-This is not an amending motion.
MR. SALES: -It is a subsidiary motion.
CHAIRMAN: --Yes, quite so,
MRS. LI:-Mr. Chairman, I stand to second this motion that the motion, Mr. Wilson WANG's verson, as it stands on a paper be referred to the Standing Committee. As I am a woman of action and few
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words I am not going to add any comments to Mr. WANG's speech, as enough has been said about the lack of education. My own feeling is that we have an ad hoc committee now studying the enlargement of the scope of the Council so I would therefore very much like to say that this motion be referred to the Standing Committee for further discussion.
MR. BERNACCHI :-Mr. Chairman, I support this Motion. Since the substantive motion, first came before this Council, a lot has happened in the field of Education, in particular, the nominated members of the Legislative Council, except Mr. P. C. Woo (an old Reform Club Member of this Council), have voted for the White Paper like sheep, indeed, like "yes men", without even proposing that the White Paper be referred to their Standing Committee to be considered and revised, clause by clause. In my opinion, that makes the need for this Council to have some say in education all the more important. In my previous speech, I referred to the Reform Club's view that certain members of this Council should be our representatives on the Education Board, and I noted that the Proposer and Seconder of the present motion are, indeed, on the Education Advisory Board although not as representatives of this Council. With the passing of the White Paper in its present form and without any substantial amendments, this main motion has now reached far beyond the question of being a political gimmick, and if we pass this motion in Council to-day, more than likely, it will become a dead letter, because Government will not act upon it. On the other hand, if we accept that this motion be referred to the Standing Com- mittee, in my experience, there is more chance of some useful results eventually emerging from this motion.
I am particularly horrified at the speech of the Financial Secretary on the debate of the White Paper on Education. In my opinion, the answer to his speech is "yes," we must introduce a progressive form of direct personal taxation-one income tax.
With these words, I do support that this Motion be referred to the Standing Committee. Particularly, to consider how best we can achieve the common object of having some say over educational policy, after all teachers (even in the N.T.) are eligible to vote. Yet, at present, we have no more say over education than we have over the introduction of direct personal taxation. Yet education is recognized as a municipal or Urban commitment in most places in the British Commonwealth.
MR. FUNG:--Mr. Chairman, as an Unofficial Member of the Legis- lative Council I feel I must not let the occasion pass without saying a word in defence of the Unofficial Members of the Legislative Council. I am referring particularly to the remarks made by my senior colleague, Mr. BERNACCHI, concerning the L.C. members. The views expressed by us in the debate on White Paper on Education represent not only our
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