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own, but also the majority section of the public. The fact that we, with one exception, finally voted for the White Paper merely points to our desire to adopt an open mind at all times. When we found that the official arguments were well reasoned we accepted them in good faith. If a section of the public does not see eye to eye I can only say it is largely a matter of opinion.

MRS. ELLIOTT:-Mr. Chairman, I didn't prepare a speech for this afternoon but when you began discussing this Motion you mentioned the Legislative Council discussion on the White Paper, during which Government's position was made known. I notice that you did not say that in the final conclusion the public's position was practically ignored. In spite of what Mr. FUNG says I still say practi- cally ignored-and therefore I feel that Mr. Hilton CHEONG-LEEN'S suggestion, although good in the beginning, is now no longer possible because it is too serious a matter, and the suggestion put forward by Mr. CHEONG-LEEN is too mild, and therefore I support the amended motion.

MR. SALES: Sir, I support the subsidiary motion which has been introduced by my colleagues Mr. Wilson WANG and the Hon. Mrs. Ellen LI. At my instigation the debate was adjourned to enable you to seek Government's views on the motion before this Council. So having spoken once, I was unable to do so again but now that this subsidiary motion has been made, I am free to say my piece once again. There are a few thoughts I wish to put forward, Mr. Chairman. First, like Mr. BERNACCHI, I feel that even if we were to pass the original motion it would remain a dead letter as Government is opposed to it. On the other hand, again like Mr. BERNACCHI, if we were to reject it, this Council would make no contribution to a subject of the utmost im- portance to the community. Dissatisfaction with the state of education in Hong Kong need not be proved as it is known to one and all. Accordingly, the best procedure to follow is in my view to refer the matter to the Standing Committee of the Whole Council. It will serve the purpose of keeping the issue alive. More than that, it will enable members to discuss the state of education and to suggest how the public interest may be better served than is presently the case even without the presence of the head of that department as a member of this Council. Education is a complex subject, perhaps more so in Hong Kong's circumstances than elsewhere. It must be handled by those who are properly trained and fully qualified, for any error of judgment can be of incalculable prejudice to the future of hundreds of thousands of people. Still, it does not mean that men and women in public life cannot discuss its problems and guide its policies to the general advantage of the people who live here. If it is felt, as it appears to be, that this ought to be done even more than it has been done up to the present time, an objective review can only be for the public good. Sir,

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I feel that the time has not passed when the public in fact should be asked to offer opinion constructively on the subject of the future of education in Hong Kong, I question whether public opinion has been sought to the extent that it should have been over such an important subject. I question too, Sir, whether bringing people from abroad to serve on committees of enquiry and on working parties of this nature and on other subjects of public interest in Hong Kong is for the good of the Colony. I suggest, Sir, that Government would be far better advised to send Hong Kong experts abroad to study the progressive measures that have been taken elsewhere and relate them to our cir- cumstances, rather than to bring people on a flight to Hong Kong to examine the position, and offer opinions which may not be related to the desires of the people of Hong Kong and to their circumstances. For this, and for all other reasons, I consider that the substance of Mr. CHEONG-LEEN's motion will be better served by keeping it alive and that is done best by referring it to the Standing Committee of the Whole Council. Therefore, I support the subsidiary motion that has been introduced this evening.

Mr. Li:-Mr. Chairman, I rise to support the motion moved by Mr. Wilson WANG and that is to refer the matter to the Standing Com- mittee of the Whole. However, in supporting this motion, I would like to make a few points. First I do not think the idea of this Council supervising the Government schools, Government primary schools, is a good idea because I think the Government schools should be supervised by the Government and they certainly are not our baby. I have great respect for the members of the Board of Education but in my long years in Hong Kong I have seen Directors of Education making use of the Board of Education only as they find them expedient, and therefore I think that even if a member of this Council were to serve on the Board of Education it does not serve the use of the education at all in the Colony. However, I would like to support the motion moved by Mr. WANG.

MR. HU:-Mr. Chairman, while I support the view expressed by the learned Chairman of the Reform Club, at the same time we should not overlook the merits of Mr. CHEONG-LEEN's original motion. His merits are firstly that in the Colony we are the only organization that have members elected by the public. Education is a public matter which concerns the public and we should have an elected member to see about this important matter. This is the first merit in Mr. CHEONG- LEEN's original motion. Secondly, I deplore the total disregard in the Legislative Council, the proposal we have made, for example I did make certain proposals as an elected member of Urban Council, that I would very regretfully say that most of my suggestion has been dis- regarded, so that with this fact I think also that Mr. CHEONG-LEEN'S original motion has its merit. But as the Chairman of the Reform Club

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