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so as to render them specially efficient if required for service with Imperial forces against the highly trained armies of Europe, and this payment, as I take it, is an amount given to the men so as to enable them to devote sufficient time to be properly trained to meet an emergency that might arise. Now the whole thing, I think, is in that, and after what the Secretary of State for War said to-day, one of the difficulties in Australia-1 speak, of course, subject to due deference to the Prime Minister representing Australia, and 1 have a section in my own Colony who object to an increase of defence expenditure, and who would object to pay out of the Colonial Exchequer the extra amount required to meet this training and equipment of men for service outside the Colony.

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Sir EDMUND BARTON: Is the partly-paid force that you are referring to, the Militia?

Mr. SEDDON : Yes.

Sit EDMUND BARTON: In Australia.

Mr. SEDDON: Now, if that is mot as between the respective Governments and the Imperial Government, one of the main difficulties I think is removed. I am speaking of course for my own Colony, I said to the Conference before, and I repeat it, there is a determination in all the Colonies I know. at least in my own Colony there is a determination there, that we shall not have a paid standing army. Any attempt in that direction, in my opinion, would be met by strenuous opposition; but, on the other hand, the difficulties that I have said exist and the necessities that have arisen, I believe myself if the leading men would take the matter up there would be no difficulty in having these reserves; in fact I suggest to the Premier of the Commonwealth whether he might not ask those of his own partially paid forces now, who are receiving the 61. a year," Will you volunteer for service within given limits? and out of the force which he already pays there would be a large number of men who for a little extra, or would in all probability be prepared for service outside the Commonwealth.

Sir EDMUND BARTON: Might 1, as, à point of information, mention this? We have been discussing a Defence Bill, the second reading was carried, but there was no opportunity to take it through Committee owing to the long discussion on the tariff and to other causes. There was in that Bill a provision for service in emergency outside the Commonwealth. Although the second reading of the Bill was carried, there was scarcely a voice in the Parliament that supported the inclusion of such a provision as a matter of law.

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The SECRETARY OF STATE FOR WAR: Was it made quite clear that such troops would only be employed with the consent of the Colonial Government?

Sir EDMUND BARTON: Ob, yes; any question of that kind would have had to struggle very hard for its life. The whole matter was discussed. Sir John Forrest made a long speech on the matter, and I took occasion to review the whole debate. I took a note of nearly every speeeù myself. I think the Parliament was almost unanimous-the whole House of Repre sentatives on that subject.

Mr. SEDDON: I am differently situated, because we have already placed upon our Statute Book an Act which would enable this to be done, and we have in New Zealand the same objection generally to an increased expenditure, the same feeling as exists in Australia. But there is this to consider, Canada is differently situated, and there is not the same danger or necessity as far as Canada is concerned as there is in Australasia, I will point out very shortly. The changed conditions respecting Australasia arise from the fact that there is a change in the balance of power.

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There is no longer that isolation that we had. Although” Amerien is a friendly Power, she has drawn nearer to us in annexing the Hawaiian Islands: she has now she is now at the Phillipines and at Porto Rico. Then you have Russia coming through China in the Indian Ocean, and you have, of course, Germany at Samon, and you have the French, who are always on the alert, and are strengthening their position, if you look at what has been the. force that they have had at Noumen, the strengthening of her naval force also there. All this I say has so changed the position in respect to Australasia, that-- we should be botter prepared than we are now. When I say better prepared, With I do not moan in respect to defending Australia or New Zealand. nearly 20,000 Volunteers in New Zealand, and with the force they have in Australia, there would be to danger as far as any force landing, nor could it land, but if it did land, with the experience we have of what the Boers could do in South Africa, there is fear under that head either as regards Australia or New Zealand.

But each and all the speakers have said we should be prepared to strike the first blow and to strike it expeditiously. Now, where is that to be done? Where could you get a force that could strike, that blow more expeditiously than a force which could be depended upon taken immediately from Australia and New Zealand, and within the radius and within the limits, and where it could be and would be necessary to strike an effective blow, if it were in connexion with any of those Powers or their territories that I have just now been enumerating. I say myself, looking at it from an Australasian stand- point, that with the danger that we have, and we concur as we have concurred practically that, in respect to the Naval squadron, a blow would be struck, and we should agree in time of war to withdraw that squadron to strike this blow, equally with that, that contention holding good and being agreed upon, then I say, to make it still more effective, if you have a land force specially trained, and that could go at once and fight side by side with the Imperial forces, that in my opinion would be a great strengthening of the position as far as Australasia 'is concerned ; and it is that more than anything else and owing to these altered conditions, that I think has caused the military authorities in the Colonies, the Commonwealth, or the State of. New South Wales, and present l'ommandant of the Commonwealth and myself as Defence Minister of New Zealand to submit the schemes which are in the hands of members for consideration.

Now, I am of this opinion further, that the matter, should be considered not from a local Australian, Canadian, or New Zealand standpoint, but from that of the Empire, and what would weigh with mo, I think, should weigh with every member of the Conference, is what has been expressed by the Secretary of State for War, and which I have no doubt has been given under the advice of those who are entrusted with the military affairs of the Empire--the experts. That being, the case, I think the matter should be further considered.

The next question that I would desire to touch upon is what was said by the Secretary of State for War in respect to the number of men that is maintained by the Mother Country. Well, under the altered conditions again I desire, with due dillidenco, to say I do not think myself that the strength which has been mentioned is at all too great, in fact I am inclmed to think that it will require to be strengthened. The manner of doing it must be left to those having the responsibility, but you find here that the Mother Country, according to this statement, is weakened to the extent that there are 30,000 now in the respective Colonies, and I take it that in that respect of course it must be weakened. 1 do not know what is done in Canada. We have now a force in New Zealand or in Australia, and this must be Colonies posted outside, but there may be of course Crown Colonies we should strike at some where a foreign power might strike just as

of their Colonies, andtthis expense is in connexion with those Crown Colonies. I take it that is so. But this brings me to a point that I do not know I would urge upon the Secretary of State for War. whether the other Prime Ministers agree, but I believe myself it would, be an advantage if you had in Austrália, in New Zealand, and the Colonies those troops or regiments of the Imperial forces.

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