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PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE

Reference :-

TLC.O. 885

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PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON

ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHÍC- COPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH——NOT TO

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We ought to have them trained with our men so that they could work together with highly trained officers and men. Under the altered conditions I believe` myself, I speak for my own Colony, that would be acceptable. There was a time when the Colonies, probably the Secretary of State for War or Mr. Chamberlain may remember it, objected, or at least there was no objection, but they were not favourable to the maintenance of Imperial troops in the Colonies. Under the altered conditions and the dangers that I have just now mentioned, I believe myself, that to meet difficulties that may arise in the places that I have mentioned it would be an advantage to have these Emporial forces located closer to hand than you have them at the present time. As you are strengthening of course your Naval force under the same circumstances, the question naturally arises, would it not be an advantage to have this one in the Colonies. If so, you would have the advantage of having your men nearer the scene of operations. and at the same time they would be there with us for the purpose of assisting in the training of our Militia, our officers, or perhaps our Navy, this Reserve Force. There has been, as far as Canada is concerned, and as far as Australia is concerned, and as far as New Zealand is concerned some doubt as to the organisation of the land force. The best way, I think, to have an improvement made, or a suggestion of an improvement, and as to knowing the position in case of an emergency did arise as far as Canada is concerned, or Australia, or New Zealand, I would say why not let General Roberts or some of your highly trained men, something above the ordinary commandant officer, or officer that you could send out, why not let him come to the Colonies, confer with the Commandants, the Minister of Defence, and those at the present time engaged in connexion with our land forces, und in each place they would then, by being on the spot, point out the weakness existing. Recommendations coming from such a source would, in my opinion, be bound to be attended to by the Defence Ministers of the Colonies and lead to improvement. That is really what I have to say and say so as a Minister of Defence. We get a commandant who is an artillery officer, well then we go in for artillery.

We get a Cavalry officer and then the artillery goes. The Harbour defences; we get an expert, a naval officer, and then it is all expenditure on your harbour defences. That has been the experience of all tho Colonies. And in one way or another, we have practically thrown thousands and thousands of pounds away.

Sir ALBERT HIME: I do not agree as to that; so far as we are con- cerned I do not agree that it is the experience of all the Colonies.

Mr. SEDDON: At all events it has been our experience.

Sir ALBERT HIME: It has not been our experience.

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Mr. SEDDON: I think the suggestion I have thrown out will be of service if something can be done in the direction indicated. 'The question now as I take it before the Conference is whether we shall have a departure in the direction of Navy men highly trained that can be depended upon for services outside the Colonial limits. For myself. I think it could be done. I would ask. at all events, the Conference to consider the resolution, of which I have given notice. I cannot say agree with the suggested resolution of Sir Edmund Barton, the Prime Minister of the Commonwealth. That seems to be putting aside altogether the question of the Imperial Reserve and simply advocating the manufacture. of arms and ammunition within the respective Colonies and an entire change from what was intended by the resolution of which I have given notice, and underlying throughout is the desire to place at the disposal of the Imperial Government within given limits, I do not think you would get many from the Colonies that would go and serve in India. Canada, of course, as I tell is differently situated to what we are in Australia and New Zealand, you, and she is not situated as we are. I will say and repeat there are altered

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conditions which should be provided against, and to that extent there may be of course something in Sir Edmund Barton's contention, but on the broad ground that we have men in the Colony who would serve outside the Colony, we have never bat any difficulty whatever; in fact we have had five men offering to one that was required, and if the men are there. and it is men that is wanted, and there is a difficulty in the Mother Country there are two difficulties. First, in my opinion, there will be the difficulty in getting the men; and secondly, if you have them here they are too far away from the scene of operations, and by having highly trained men in Austral- asia who would be depended upon they could strike an effective blow and strike it quickly. Such being the case, I will ask the Conference to agree to something being done in the direction indicated. To stand and wait, as we did before, far spasmodic action, and then pick up the material to hand notwithstanding that you have your Volunteers highly trained, still I do * not know that that meets the position. Under these circumstances. I again urge the Conference to do something in the direction indicated by the resolution.

Mr. FULLER: Mr. Chamberlain, it will not be necessary for me to say many words on the very interesting question that the Conference has been discussing. Sir Gordon Sprigg made a statement, I think, to the effect that while the Government of Cape Colony hoped to increase its naval contri- bution the circumstances the internal circumstances-with which it has to cope render it almost impossible for them to pledge themselves to any military assistance to the Imperial Government. It is perfectly well known that we have a very large native population, men, a large proportion of them still living a tribal life and still savages, and that periodically there have been native outbreaks. This commits the Cape Colony to a very serious military or quasi-military expenditure, and in addition to the war loan which we have contracted recently of nearly 3,000,000, we have an outlay of a clear 250,000. to 500,000 annually to provide in case of an outbreak. And these periodical outbreaks unfortunately have not been unfrequent. I have been connected with the Colony for over 30 years— 35 years-and during that time there have been six or seven native out- breaks, more or less serious, that have had to be met, very often with the assistance of the Imperial Government. Under these circumstances, Sir Gordon Sprigg felt, and I am sure rightly felt, that we could not give any pledge of military assistance to the Empire. At the same time there is all the feeling and all the desire to give such help, and I am perfectly certain that those who form the military powers in Cape Colony would fall in if the circum- stances of the country permitted with such a proposal as has been made for a perpetual Imperial Reserve. I cannot judge of the condition and position of other Colonies, but I cannot see why if the circumstances of the country permitted there should not be a Volunteer Force of that kind, that is, I mean, an Imperial Reserve formed from those who form the Volunteer service, the additional expenses to be met by the Imperial Government itself. And I think it would have a great moral offect in connexion with the main- tenance of the prestige of the British Empire, and that we should all strive if possible to bring about such a state of things. I am not sure that we shall not set you the example before long in South Africa. At all events, I am sure of this, that you would have plenty of men who would form part of such a reserve force, and that among them would be found a great many of the Boers with whom you have been fighting in the recent war. I have no more to say than that we are not prepared to make any definite pledges with regard to military defence while we do hope to increase our contribution to the Navy.

Sir ALBERT HIME: Mr. Chamberlain, Sir Gordon Sprigg and I handed to the First Lord of the Admiralty a few days ago a statement which set forth our views not only with regard to the Naval Reserve, but also with regard to the provision of men required. for any other purpose, and we gave our reasons in that statement why it was impossible for us to plege our Governemuls to supply any given number of men for service outside our respective Colonies. M 4

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