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PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE

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「 ། ། ། །CO. 885

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PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON

ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE GOPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH-NOT TO BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC-

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Trade send each Prime Minister or representative here a list of the articles and manufactures in the Mother Country that we can best help by giving a preference, leaving further action to the respective Parliaments and Minister. Of course, if we had such a list we could see encroachments made by other countries upon British trade in the Colonies, and we could then, probably those who are here might go somewhat into the question, but we could not come to any definite conclusions. That would be a com- mencement of what ultimately would be done by the Ministers or Parliaments of the respective Colonies, and that is a way out of the present difficulty. It appears to me there is only one Colony at the prosent time-the Dominion of Canada-that is really in a position to approach this matter and go into details with anything like satisfactory results. That is the position!

Sir WILFRID LAURIER: Mr. Chamberlain, everything, that we de here, at this moment, is purely tentative. We are not in a position at present at this meeting to come to any concrete resolution which would apply to all the Colonies, and perhaps, after all the effort that will be made, we may not be able to come to a general conclusion of any kind. If we pass a resolution such as is intended, and I do not object, for my part, affirming that we are in favour of having mutual preferential trade with the British Empire, I think we can all agree to such a resolution as that, but we will not get any more advanced, so far as practical issues are concerned, than we are at this moment. If we pass a resolution it must contain the basis of some practical schome which we shall be able to take away with us to our Colonies, and try and endeavour to get passed, not only in our respective Parliaments, but in the British Parliament as well. I think, therefore, that a great deal of good would be come to by these negotiations, not negotiations, perhaps, but discussions, that we could have with the Board of Trade, in order to see how far we can agree, and how far we can meet the views of each other. My colleagues and myself have learnt, with some regret, I must say, that the preference which we have given does not seem to have been appreciated as much as we thought it would have been, and we would like to discuss the matter with the Board of Trade. Then, if we cannot agree upon the general terms, we will have to see whether we can agree upon the line of specified articles, and if we cannot agree upon anything at all, what is the good of passing any resolution?

I think, therefore, before we commit ourselves to this course that a good end will be served by getting more information than we have, so that we can discuss it quietly perhaps better than we can do here, and see how far it is possible to come to some understanding, because after all, it is no use passing a resolution of a vague character such as has been indicated unless we are prepared to follow it up afterwards with something practical.

The SECRETARY OF STATE: Yes, I feel very strongly what Sir Wilfrid Laurier has said, we can, of course, pass a resolution, but if it is to be unanimous it must be vague, and in that case really there is not a great deal of importance to be attached to it because we must bear in mind, that upon the last occasion of an Imperial Conference we also passed a resolution very much to the effect of what we should be now passing, and the result has been, so far as all the Colonies, with the exception of the Dominion of Canada is concerned, absolutely uil. We have not had any preference, although all the Prime Ministers present pledged themselves to the principle of a preference. We have not had any preference given to us except in Canada. Therefore, I should be a little sorry if we confined our labours on this occasion entirely to passing a resolution so indefinite and so vague that it may have no practical result. But the discussion has fully justified what I said at the outset, that the position of the different Colonies varies among themselves. I quite understand Mr. Seddon's position, I understand Sir Edmund Barton's position, they have not brought their expert with them, and they would be at a disadvantage if they were attempting to make anything like a definite arrangement, or if they were asked to pledge themselves to recommend anything to their Parliaments without further consideration.

On the other hand, Canada is prepared, and I think. therefore, nothing need stand in the way of such a Conference as has been proposed between the

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experts of Canada and our experts. In the same way, although I understand Sir Edmund Barton is not prepared to come to any definite conclusion yet, 1 think he has expressed a desire to have such a Conference, if only for the purpose of informing his own mind in regard to our position, and I would suggest, therefore, that those two Conferences take place. In the meantime, if it would be satisfactory, I would endeavour, on the basis of Mr. Sed lon's proposed resolution, to draft a resolution which we can accept on behalf of His Majesty's Governinent. We should have to make some slight variation of words, but I think the principle is one which we shall all be prepared to accept. I would not, however, propose to bring that draft for final considera- tion before the Conference until these two Committee Meetings have been held (hear, hear)-because they may throw some further light upon the subject, and may enable us to put something into the general resolution which we cannot do at the present moment. If that be generally accepted, then I would say that we will arrange for these two Conferences, and we will postpone the further consideration in the Conference of this matter until those Committees have been held, and in the meantime, as I say, I will draft and send round to the Members a resolution based on Mr. Seddon's proposals. If that be accepted, should we take advantage of the little time that we have, to enter upon the subject that is allied with this, that is the question of subsidies, about which Mr. Seddon has also something to say; subsidies to shipping. It sceins to me a matter of very great importance.

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Sir ALBERT HIME: Might I say before we leave this subject I would agree to a general resolution such as you suggest, but I think there might be added words to the effect "that the Prime Ministers pledge themselves to bring the question before their respective Parliaments, with the view to "the necessary legislation being passed in each case.” That would plodge us, Sir, more than the Prime Ministers were pie lged on the occasion of the last Conference, if they now pledge themselves to bring the matter before their respective Legislatures at the earliest possible date.

The SECRETARY OF STATE: I will introduce a paragraph for discussion.

Sir EDMUND BARTON: The question of trade preference with respect

to the United Kingdom only?

Sir ALBERT HIME: Yes.

The SECRETARY OF STATE: Perhaps Mr. Seddon will open the subject of subsidies.

Mr. SEDDON: Mr. President and gentlemon, the primary object in view in bringing this question of subsidies before the Conference is to assist in pro- moting trade, and at the same time to improve the over sea mail connexion between the Mother Country and the Dominions beyond the seas, and with that there would be an advantage both to the Mother Country and those within the Empire, but outside the United Kingdom. This question of subsidies is no, new matter, and I am pretty well satisfied that every inember here attending the Conference has given the matter his consideration. That it has been attended in other countries with advantages I think will not be gainsaid. I am satisfied myself that with the subsidies that have been given by the French Government, they have improved their position with their Colonies. They have increased their trade with our Colonies. The same of course applies to America, to Germany, and the same in respect to Russia. The amounts paid are scarcely ascertainable, but they amount to very large sums. I can speak of course from definite information with respect to the subsidy paid by the American Government, ostensibly for the San Francisco mail service. I think America is paying something like 50,000l. a year. I think it is, to a great extent, saying little for our intelligence if we come to the conclusion that that subsidy is paid for the purpose of having the Australian mail delivered a few days earlier in London, or that English correspondence 13

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