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PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE

Reference :-

C.O. 885

PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON

|ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC- COPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH—NOT TO

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The SECRETARY OF STATE: Moreover, the Colonies will know even more than we can, in what articles we are threatened with the more serious competition of foreign countries.

Sir ALBERT HIME: I would like to say, Sir, that I am inclined to agree with Mr. Seddon on the whole, in connexion with this matter. It seems to me that what we want, at any rate the Prime Ministers of New Zealand and of the Cape and myself, is to establish the general principle that it is our desire to give preference as far as possible to English goods and manufactures. Having established that principle, it will be for the Colonies themselves, for responsible ministers and others in the Colonies guided by their experts, to decide upon the amount to be given in each case, and we would like to have from the Imperial Government a list of articles which, if given a preference, would be of the greatest advantage to the British Empire and the British exporter. Of course, we have spoken in a general sense, Mr. l'aller and myself, in saying we will give a preference of 25 per cent., I think it amounted to. I do not think that we intended that to apply all round, especially not to highly rated articles such as spirit, wines and tobacco which I'sce are excluded from the Canadian preference.

The SECRETARY OF STATE: Yes.

Sir ALBERT HIME: We would be anxious to give a preference where that preference would be of the greatest advantage, and we would be prepared to consider that when wo had the list before us of the articles a preference on which would be most advantageous, we would be prepared to consider the amount of the proferential rate in each case. But I do not want to go so far -I agree with Mr. Seddon--I do not want to go so far as even to pledge myself to recommend to my Government any particular amount, because we have not got our experts with us, and we might rather commit ourselves by stating that we would recommend such and such preferential rates. as I am concerned, I would rather establish the principle that it is our wish to give preference, the greatest possible preference, to British goods and manufactures, and to leave it to our Parliaments and to our experts to decide what those preferences should be, having regard to the list which wo would hope to be furnished with by the Imperial Government, showing those particular articles the preference on which would be of the greatest benefit to English exporters.

As far

Sir EDMUND BARTON: That is what I mean, we should have a list.

Sir ALBERT HIME: Yes, that is what I should like to have; having that, to leave the amount of the preference to be decided in each case by our own Governinents after we have consulted with our experts. I want it to be clearly understood, as Mr. Fuller has pointed out, that we have specially rated articles which did not enter into my mind at the time that I said we were prepared to give preferential treatment to British goods and manufac- tures, those specially rated articles being principally spirits and tobacco.

Mr. FULLER: And flour.

Sir ALBERT HIME: Flour we do not charge any duty on, it does not come into our calculations, but the duties on those articles are very heavy, and it would be very difficult for us to increase the duties on those articles- the duties on spirits and tobacco; on all other items we shall be prepared- on manufactured goods especially we shall certainly be prepared-to give such preference as we can-the greatest preference. On that understanding, Sir, I would be quite willing to vote for the general principle that it is desirable to grant preferential treatment to British goods and manufactures, leaving it to the Colonies to decide on the amount of such preference in each

case

Sir EDMUND BARTON: Mr. Chamberlain, I would like to make myself clear in this matter, if I may. In assenting to the proposal that there should

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be a detailed consideration of the articles which it may be most beneficial to the United Kingdoin, and perhaps less injurious in any respect to the Colonies to select. I want to be quite clear about this, that I do not abandon the principle of the resolution which I indicated or outlined the other day, that is. that I agree with Sir Albert Hime altogether, that if anything is to come of this matter as regards a preferential treatment of British goods in one way or another, the ultimate selection of the method must be left to the Governments and Parliaments concerned, If that were not done, if a cut- and-dried proposal were brought before the various Parliaments at this stage, I think the results would be rather injurious to the outlook than in favour of it. and I want to be quite clear about that, because I bave all along been anxious to advise that no steps should be taken which would in the least even wear the aspect of pledging the Governments, and more particularly the Parliaments concerned, until they had themselves an opportunity of deciding the question of the nature and extent of the preference. That course would, I think, tend to more really induce them to take steps by way of preference.

wish to see that course taken which is the least indicative of any adverso result in portions of the Empire, of which, of course, those who have been in the Parliaments best know the conditions, and it seems to me it would bo a misleading course wero it to be assumed that anything which does not leave to them the determination even of the nature of the preference they would give whother by way of customs duties or any other way, any course which would appear to take away from them in any sense the power of deciding, or woulu pledge them inferentially, so that they might, while endorsing the Government's action, still do so in a grudging spirit would not be popular. Any course of that kind would; I think, be dangerous, and would end in disaster, because I think the stage at which we are is so early in that respect that the position requires to be safeguarded in that way, and I want to make it cloar, notwithstanding the meetings of these Sub- Committees, Lint I should be regarded as now adhering to the principle of the resolution that I outlined.

The PRESIDENT OF THE BOARD OF TRADE: Mr. Chamberlain, it is evident after what has been said that it is impossible for us at this stage to arrive at anything like a definite conclusion respecting the articles upon which a rebate or upon which a preference can best be given. That is clearly the ease with respect to New Zealand and the Cape and Australia because the representatives of those Colonies who are here have not got any exports with them who could profitably discuss the subject, but I doubt myself whether it would be possible even in the case of Canada. It is a very difficult thing to arrive at a perfectly satisfactory conclusion in a complicated matter such as this. What we are really contemplating now is something like a series of commercial treaties, and rather olaborato negotiation and consideration will have to take place before we can determine exactly the way in which the proference can best be given in the interests of both parties.

I would suggest, therefore, that while we night arrive at a general resolution now, we should leave it to the next few months, not only while these gentlemen are still in England, but even after they have left England, to carry out the more detailed negotiations which would be necessary to arrive at the best results. I think the Board of Trade might submit some suggestions for the consideration of the Governments of the different Colonies, and probably that would be the best plan to adopt in the first instance, the lists of articles, of course, to be merely of a preliminary character. Then upon those lists we should have the observations of different Governments concerned. I put that forward as a suggestion, I think probably it would meet the case in the most satisfactory way.

Mr. SEDDON: I would suggest, Mr. Chamberlain, that we should go into Committee with a view of drafting-take the resolution of which I have given notice as the basis, and see whether we can' draft a resolution that can all unanimously agree to. Affirming the general principle and decide upon that, theu, as I suggested at the first meeting, let the Board of

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