CO885-(19-20) — Page 21

PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE

།།

Reference :-

mmimmim C.O.885

19 PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON

ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC-

COPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH-NOT TO

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE.

Mr. T. H. HOLT.

told us anything about insur- ents have an arrangement with Corporation, the Marine

100

e whole of their insurance 7— o not insure.

n does not insure at all, East ractically the Colonies that are funds, for instance, Northern re, and Southern Nigeria has their own insurance.

are about two millions and a n the average: what proportion illion or a million and a-half? nothing to do with the insur-

trouble.

t? When there are claims and

› declare figures to the London Yes, we notify the London

or.) I suppose it is only really licies 7-Yes,

nning open policies, and you mount to write against them?—

id if there is a loss you arrange is a clear loss and there is no Crown Agents send in their ut when any question arises it

ake out the general average?-

lean very much with a company irance Corporation where you

; they would not quarrel o not quarrel, but there is a hed to it, and as I wrote to the difficult to decide the respon- up and the insurance company. is part of your duty to advise t as to the most advantageous that contracts may be placed

not hear of them until they to us and say, "We have got ome thousand tons of rails; for freight?"

that in their specification?---

t the tender which was most

price and freight.

to put that in their specifica- tenders? It is rather late in think their system in invita- quantities of cargo like rails delivery at a particular port. w-Vaughan would naturally Middlesbrough. Guest Keen's Jardiff, and Moss Bay and ington or Maryport.

to July we rendered to you you mean that for the six

1.

te account for each shipment!

18 shipments?--Yes.

imenta?-Yes; some of those gle packages and some hun-

you send in an account the hipment or do you send them our accounts immediately be- want to send them out to the

Accounts in and the payments Agents to you at irregular

e bills of lading and parcels

)," so that you were able to

on the bills of lading?—Yes.

of lading, do you make those .typed.

e typing does for the six?-1 nk it is two.

183

27 October 1908

1136. (Chairman) "Forty or fifty per cent. of the accounts rendered by us were for sums under £1": in connection with that point could there not be more concentration 7-I believe it interferes with the system of the Colonies; they want to keep all their depart- ments separately and all their accounts separate.

4437. Supposing various consignments valued at sums of under £1 were going to one colony, those could not be collected and put in one case?-It would cause a great deal of inconvenience, because the cases might be for up-country and for two or three different departments, and it would cause no end of confusion, especially in Eastern countries, and would necessitate the Crown Agents having a store to collect the goods.

4438. Then, of course, you have to do with the passages 7-Yes.

4430. About how many passages do you have in a year? Is there anything like an average, or does it vary very much? It varies very much the bulk of them are West African.

4440. (Mr. Bailey.) Do you find in practice that your people supervising the shipping relieves the ship-

owner or the contractor of responsibility-No; we take very good care of that.

4-441. You laid great stress just now on the necessity of seeing that parcels were delivered intact on board? -Yes.

4442. Surely the person responsible at the docks for loading the ship would call attention to any package that was defective, would he not, in the interests of the shipowner, assuming that the package is damaged in transit by rail?-Yes, he would in their own in- terest, but sometimes they do not.

4443. You look to your clerks in that case to see that a little extra care is taken ?-Yes, and to report; they have frequently accidents and damage caused.

4444. (Sir Ralph Moor.) In the two offices-your

office and the Crown Agents' Office-there is a vast

amount of information ?--Yes,

4445. There must be continual references from one

to the other with regard to getting the complement of the information that is in one that would be in the other office. Do you not yourself think there would be great advantages if those two offices were in one and all the information was available in the

one office 1--1 do not think so; we are on the spot in the City and in communication with all the docks and shipping offices.

4446. You are continually referring to the Grown Agents yourselves, are you not? We have a direct telephone to their office."

4447. But you do have to continually to refer?- Yes, and when any large question is involved we see the Crown Agents themselves.

4448. And you do not think there would be any great advantage gained if the two offices were in one and the information concentrated in one office?-I do not think so. The information which the ship- ping department would require that we have not got must be up here; for instance, as to the indents

from the Colony they could not part with those or with their original correspondence.

4419. Yes; but you must obtain in what would appear to be a department of their work a vast amount of information, eally, because you are con tinuously in communication with the suppliers from the date the order is given, and you get a lot of information which is extraneous to the particular shipping agency, do you not?-I do not quite follow

you.

4450. From the date you receive their shipping orders you are continuously in communication with the suppliers with regard to the goods and the trans- port of them ?--Yes.

4451. In that communication you must obtain a great deal of information which is extraneous to the ordinary shipping agency work?--I should think very few shipping agenta have to deal with the cargo that we do.

4452. Very few shipping agents can have the in- formation in their offices that you have, owing to your continuous communication with suppliers ?--We consider we have obtained a considerable amount of

184

27 October 1908]

CROWN AGENTS' ENQUIRY COMMITTEE:

Mr. T. H. HOLT.

knowledge, especially for the particular cargo which the Crown Agents deal with; there are always com- plications arising on such a varied business, as you can understand. ·

4453. (Chairman.) Sir Ralph Moor's point is (and I tried to put it in another way), that that information some of us are inclined to think ought to be at the Crown Agent's Office and not simply in the shipping office, which has nothing to do with the Colonies?— But we are practically part of their business.

4454. You are not in communication with the Colonies, and it would render, 1 venture to think, their correspondence with the Colonies much more in- telligent if they did know more?-I do not think so, because, as far as the shipping to the Colonies is con- cerned the Crown Agents have everything handed to them cut and dried, and they have only to send out the advices and invoices.

4455. It is too much cut and dried; they have too much head nursing. How long have you done the shipping business for the Tanjong Pagar Dock Board? -Not more than three years.

4456. How has your business with them gone on?— Very well indeed.

4457. Who had done that work for them before 1- They had an office in London.

4458. And they did it completely themselves?—Yes. 4459. You recollect there was a correspondence with the Crown Agents as to your charges 1-Yes.

4460. And you sent a full explanation. Has that question arisen again?-No.

4161. Have they accepted your explanation?—Yes. I understand they are extremely satisfied.

4402. Have you had any complaints as to the way in which you have done your work -None whatever. 4163. Do you get encomiums from some Colonies and blame from others?-We never get encomiums from any of the Colonies, but you very soon hear the re-

verbe.

4464. If anything goes wrong?—You.

4465. Do some Colonies grumble more than others? -Taking them as a whole they do not very much; the matters are generally easily explained.

1466. How much time would be spent in your office over that matter? Would it take a man's whole time to deal with complaints?—Not very much, I hope.

4487. With regard to delays and things, because I suppose any question of delay is sent to you ?—Yes, we have to explain it.

4168. What do you estimate is a fair time for the execution of an order, for them to receive the goods when you have had intimation as to the contractors chosen? For the Colonies to receive the goods?

4469. Yes?--That would depend on the trade. 4470. Take, for instance, Ceylon ?—There is a boat a week.

4471. How long do you estimate between the time you receive the order and they get their goods ?—I think you must put it as the time the goods are due.

4472. That is just what I do not want to do; that is no satisfaction to the man sitting in Colombo; he sends his order away on, say, the 1st of January, and it is here in a fortnight?-We are continually pressing all the contractors.

4473. What is the sort of time you lay down in your office: "Now we must see to it that, for instance, goods for Ceylon get there on an average unless any. thing special has occurred within a certain time. Within what time do your office understand that there will be rows with someone if those goods are not got there -Very often the Colonies give the date they require them, and that is worked to.

4474. What would you allow in the case of Ceylon? --I think that is rather too large a question to answer straight off.

4475. You do not ship to Australia, but it is always reckoned with us that four months should be a fair time for them to get the goods from the time the order is received here ?-For goods which are in common use.

4476. Which have to be made t-Some goods are quickly made and others are not.

4477. (Mr. Bailey.) So far as you know there is no particular date of that kind kept in view by the Crown Agents?—Not unless the Colonists specify that they want cargo at any particular date. Then every body tries to work to it.

4478. How many items as a rule do you enter on a bill of lading, and what governs the number?— Nothing whatever; we have had bills of lading with thousands of packages on them.

4479. Supposing you had a number of different packages all going by the same ship, they would not necessarily go on the same bill of lading?-No, each requisition of each department practically wants a separate bill of lading on account of the routine of the offices in the different Colonies.

4480. You ship a good deal by what are called the Conference Lines necessarily 1-Yes.

4481. There are rebates coming from those?—Yes. 4482. Do you collect those rebates ?—Yes.

4483. How often?-Whenever they are due; they are due at certain periods always, and those are col- lected and paid over.

4484. You do not know whether they are absolutely credited to the Colony 1-Yes, undoubtedly; Sir Ernest Blake, in his evidence before the Shipping Commis- sion, was asked that question.

4185. You get nothing for the collection of those rebates?—No, we get nothing from the Crown Agents except what is shown.

4486. You say in regard to insurance that, "it is the practice of the Crown Agents wheu, in each year the premiums payable by such Colonies as insure have to be agreed, to refer it to the shipping agents to check the rates." Will you kindly explain what you do there? The London Assurance, at the end of every year, furnish a schedule of premiums which they pro pose to charge for the ensuing year.

4487. For the different risks?—Yes. Then this schedule is sent down to us to state whether they are fair and reasonable, and we have to make all the inqui ries we can and check them and make suggestions, and we have often obtained considerable reductions.

4488. (Chairman.) If you do all your business with the London Assurance, how are you able really to check them? We can always check insurance pre- miums by Lloyd's.

4489. Yes, but do you never give Lloyd's any busi- ness ?-No.

4400. Do you mean to say Lloyd's are willing to be a jackal to the lion ?—After you have been in the City some considerable number of years you get to know people.

4491. I know you get to know people, but if you never give them any business? There is always some way of getting it.

4492. (Mr. Bailey.) That is one of the advantages no doubt which you would claim for having a separate office from the Crown Agents?—Yes.

4403. What exactly do you do in the way of ship. ping coal? Coal is inspected, is it not?—Yes.

4 108. ( just now

& sin That str muddle. your orda down: 17/10,08.

fastening 4499. Because t is a sepa items on

1450,

the same when you split up.

4501. ( made in different 1

4502. (

itself to n

separate

the work

4509. L

said that You mean.

to the Col.

delivered this, that

send a bli

Been it), a agus ar f.

regulation post them 4504. (De

them 7-N expense.

4505, (3

your hand

1506. Y. orders?-

nient dep they send 4507. B paper par

of scissors

4520, (Ci Shipping Agents' Of -1521, Hc

tion ?~Jus

4522. We

that?--Yes

$523. Ha

work in ar

night ago?-

4524. Th.

at present?

section been

As a matter of

into two he

4404. That must be inspected when it is absolutely on board the vessel, must it not?--The Crown Agents have got an inspector down at Cardiff. fact, we have very little to do with the coal.

4495. It is only a small item ?--Yes; the large con- tracts for coal the Crown Agents make themselves, and sometimes the Colonies do.

4496. I see you mention here "Coin; bronze, s5 above package rate." Which rate would that be-the

one package, or two packages, or three packages rates mentioned here?—Yes.

what parcel

4407. Would you kindly explain receipts are 7-When a shipment consists of a single package of under the value of £5 it is not worth while incurring the expense of making out separate bills of lading, and the shipping companies have now got into the habit of issuing what they call a parcel receipt for

it.

I have so fa 4525. Chc tractors who the Pay Of 4.526. (Mi

to be No. 2

4527. Wh larly attach fuse the two yet. I am

preliminary

1528. (Che Crown Agen

think.

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