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29 July 199

MAURITIUS ROYAL CHAMALESSION, 19809

The Rev G MIRVISK

[11877 1-uppose that has to do with Presbytermans nty the r of your own church? - No, we give to

and sundry that apply as far as we can

14,186 What form does it take? Have you a coil- nutter or what? There is a committee. Lady Bower

The president. I think, and my wife is on the com- matter, and they give an allowance to a certain number

f poor people every month, giving them Rs 3 und Rs 2 and Rs 1, nevirding as they require it

11.17 Then t very much the same sort of charly be done by the Government through the Pow Yrk

118 Where is it dispensend, is it all,dispensed in one place, or froon various centres? Sometimes at my They house and sometimes at Lady Bower's house

If a gold

14.180 Do you think that the large amount of poverty that you see in Mauritius is preventable at all. it due to any particular cause?-I am afraid it is difficult to prevent it.

11.190 Why? On account of the habits of the people, very often, and on account of adverse circum.

11.191 When you speak of the habits of the people. do you mean that they are lazy, they do not like to work? Yes, they are lazy, and they are not temperate. and far from prudent

14.192 They are improvident P-Yea, they are im- pr-evident

16.193. You mean that that is the case all over the 1-Land-Yes. I think s

16.191 Dows it apply to any particular class, the Créole, or the native, or all of them -Chiefly the Créolea

14,195 What do you mean by a Créole? Do you mean a person of mixed blood-Yes.

No

1196 It does not matter what the mixture is?—

14.197 You say they are intemperate. that they drink? - Rum.

What is it

14.1998. Have you given any special attention to that qupation of intemperance?-I have had to fight against intemperance all along, as far as I could.

14.199. Where do they get the opportunities of drinking? Are there a great many shops P-At the Chinamen's shops.

14.200 At all the Chinese shops do they sell rum? YO'N

11.201 They drink it in the shop; they do not take it home They drink it in the shop, and they take it home teve sometimes

14.202 You say that is a great evil in the place?— Ch. you

11.203. Do you know anything about the hospitals or the prisons here?—Yes, I have been in the habit of attending them from time to time always.

14,204. Have you got anything to say about them -No

14.205 (Sir Edward O'Malley.) As to those poor people, the Créoles chiefly, that you are acquainted with in your own neighbourhood and district, are they the sort of people who could provide for themselves if they were given a bit of land to live on?-Yea, I think so

14,206 I mean, instead of receiving doles from weck to work and month to month, they might, if they were set up in a way, provide for themselves -What they get is chiefy given to poor widowa; it is not given to those men who have not been prudent.

14.207 Is that so that a large proportion of the poverty is amongst old women and old men ?—Yes.

14.208. People who have no longer any man in the family and so on ?—Yen.

14.209. And some of them have no home at all? - Yrm.

14.210. They go cadging shout from place to place

-Y.

14,211. They, of course, would not belong to that class; I mean they would not be able to support them. selveh P-No,

Continued

11212. They must be looked after Do you think the French law of distribution of property on death has anything to do with that, do you think that contributes to impoverishing the womankind of a family, or the other way? I do not think so.

14.213 They are masters of their own, I believe There is a certain amount that they are entitled to on death? Yes

16,214 Do you find that they have something to live on as a rule- not enough. but something Yes. Mostly

14215. There are, I suppose, no homes or estalimi. ments where they can live together? There is a possi house down at Beau-Bassin called the Barkly Asylum There are many poor people there, entirely dependent on Government, and when i know a case to ma bona fide case I apply to the Poor Law Commissioner for the man to be admitted, and he is admitted at once. 14.216. That is a satisfactory form of relief from your point of view -Yea

14.217. Do you refer poor people who come to you sometimes to the Poor Law Commissioner for what we call out-door relief - Yes, sometimes.

14.218. And, in order to get that, where have they to go?-The Poor Law Commissioner sends to the house and every inquiry is made before he grants any. thing, and then he grants perhaps a shilling or two a month and some rice.

14.219. Do you think that more might be made of charity or relief if it were given through a local com mittee of some wort on their recommendation and the distribution left to them P-It might be.

14.220. In the urban districts I suppose there would be no difficulty in forming a body of half-a-dozen or so. as the good people do, to look after them?-I think it would be possible.

14.221. (Mr. Woodenck) Would you advocate it? Yes, I would.

14.222. (Sir Edward O'Malley) Do you think there would be any religious difficulty in the matter?—N... I think not.

14.223. You do not think, under any circumstances. that the Roman Catholic priest would be partial to his own people us against perhaps some of yours?—I have had little experience of that kind.

14,224. Now here, in your district, who are there what sort of people could you put on such a committee if it were established?-I would leave it to the ladies to say that.

14.225 You think they probably know more about them P-Yen, I think so.

14,226. And I suppose they can investigate better than men ? Oh, yes.

14,227. How are you now paid by the Military-a capitation or a regular grant P-I never get a capitation now: 1 get 907. a year since the garrison was reduced.

14.228. You have no hospital accommodation; no religious hospital No.

14,229. You know Miss Horwood, do you not?. -Yes.

14.230. Do you recommend people to go to her hospital - Yes, my daughter goes and helps her one or two days every week.

14.231. Have you much to do with the Indians P A very great deal.

14,232. They are all mixed up with the Créoles, I mean they are living about in all these places ?—Yew.

14.233. Is there as much poverty amongst them us there is amongst the Créoles -No, I think not.

14.234. They are willing to work if they can get work ?-Yen.

14,235. What do you think of the education that the poor children get here ? Do you think it is a enit- able sort of education for the life they have to lead?— They get good education, I think.

14,296. What some people say is that it is too good; that they get an education perhaps which unfits them, indisposes them to manual labour and to agricultural

labour-Yes, I think so.

14.237. And then there is no other labour for them? -N1J.

14,238. The artisans are badly off ?—Yes.

29 July 1909 ]

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE.

The Rev G. MOIRVINE.

14.239 (Mr Woodcock) Yon, of course, have had considerable experience in all these years of the working of the Poor Law authority in the island?— โด

14.240 Are you satisfied with the way it is working now?-As far as I know, yes.

14.241. You have no grave cause of complaint against it --No.

14,242. Of course, you know there is a strong feeling amongst persons who have studied the question of Poor Law administration rather closely against the giving of out-door relief --Yea.

14.243. Except to the most exceptional and extra- ordinary cases?—Yes.

14.244. But I understand there is a good deal of out-door relief done here - Yea.

14.245. Is there any attempt that you know of to classify the people, by the Pour Law, into people, for example, who can work and will not work, and people who can work and cannot get it?—I am not aware of it. 14.246. There is no attempt at classification at all? I think not.

14,247. Am I right in this? The thing appears to m to be done in a rather rough-and-ready casual aort of way? Yes.

14.248. Can you tell us anything about the food that is given by the Poor Law authority P-No, I do not know anything about it.

14,249. You do not know anything about its quality ?-No.

14,250. In the long time that you have been here. do you think that poverty has increased or decreased -No. I think it has increased.

14,251. Do you think that that might be ameliorated by insisting in elementary schools on the payment of fees after the third standard has been passed, unless the child shows some extraordinary talent, or is recom- mended for further education? Would you recommend that? Yea.

14,252. And I suppose the better teaching of trades, technical education, and all that, would do much to ameliorate poverty!-I think more might be done to educate men to be good artisans.

14,253. With regard to the tilling of the soil, we as distinct have been told that the Créole population, from the Indian population, regard the working on the soil as degrading and as fit only for Indians P-Yes, I have always remarked that.

14,254. Do you think that that would stand in the way of Créoles making use of opportunities granted by Government to cultivate a small patch of land ?--I think it should not.

14.255. I am sure we should agree about that, but do you think it would as a matter of fact P-I cannot

say

14.256. There appear to be no poor-houses at all in the Island P-There is one at Barkly Asylum.

14,257. Yes, but that is really in the way of an infirmary, is it not P--There is a poor-house too.

14.258. With able-bodied paupers in it P-They are infirm.

14.259. That is what I mean, it is really in the nature of an infirmary; there is no asylum where able. bolied paupers can be segregated together in an institution P-No.

14,200. In your view, would it be a good thing to institute that R-I do not think so.

14.261. For example, a place where the able-bodied Wastrel and the thriftless was made to work P-Yes, they can be made to work.

14.262. But they cannot make them work' parently in prisons —They do not.

up.

14.283. Do you know anything about the working of the Royal College; are you intimately acquainted with it P-Yes, I used to take classes in classics many

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[Continued

years ago when a Professor was absent, and when the rector was absent I took his classes.

14,264. How long ago would that have been!- Twenty-five years ago.

14,265. And you have had no very intimate know. ledge of it since ?--I have conducted examinations for the London Matriculation and the Cambridge Local Examination.

14,286. Have you formed any opinion as to whether it would be a good thing to throw open the scholar ships of the College to boys who were not members of the Royal College in the island, to allow anybody who is not a member of the Royal College to compete for the English scholarships there ?--I should see no harm in it.

14,267 But do you think it would be an advantage as induring competition with the College schools, and thereby increasing, perhaps, the standard of education -improving it -I do not think it would.

14.268. Are there any secondary schools in the island that could efficiently take the place of the pre- sent Royal College schools, supposing those schools were done away with P-The Royal College schools?

Are there 14,269. Yes, the Royal College schools. other secondary schools in the island that could do the work - Yes, there are some excellent schools in the island.

14,270. Excellent secondary schoola P-Yes.

14,271. Are all those schoola denominational schools P-Yea.

14,272. Are they all Roman Catholic schools?— Yes, their conductors are Roman Catholics.

14.273. You do not know whether any belong to the Church of England ?—I think not.

14,274. And you have none in your communion ?— No.

14,275. So far as you can tell, would there be any objection on the part of the Church of England people and members of your communion to sending their children to those Roman Catholic schools for secondary education P-I do not think so.

14,276. (Chairman.) Do they give religious instruc. tion in those schools P-Yes, I believe so.

15,277. But the boys are not compelled to take it P -No.

14,278. Do you know whether Mahommedans and Hindoos and others go to those schools-Yes, all boya; all classes.

14,279. (Mr. Woodcock.) Do you happen to know where those schools are situated P-There is one at Rose Hill and one at Curepipe; I do not know whether there are any others.

14,280. (Chairman.) It has been suggested that if those English scholarships-which, as you know, are very valuable, and great prizes for all the boys to look forward to-were thrown open to public competition throughout the island, that "the result would be that the Jesuits would open schools in the island, and that the boys would divide into white boys at one school and coloured boys at another school. Do you believe there is anything in that P-I believe it is very likely.

14,281. Have you noticed that there is any strong feeling between the boys who are white, or more or loss white, and the coloured people ?--No, I do not think so.

14,282. Then, would it matter very much if the boys were divided in that way; that all the white boys went to one school and all the coloured boys went to another school-would it make very much difference? -I think it is better as at the Royal College, where they are all mixed.

The witness withdrew.