PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE
Reference :-
C.O. 885
PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON
ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC- COPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH-NOT TO
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Fuller. I think, quoting Sir Gordon Sprigg, was laying stress only on the fact that Sir Gordon Sprigg said that he did not see how they could, in addition to the contributions they were making to the Navy, make an additional pecuniary contribution with regard to military defence. Well, that is a question for discussion. We should have to see whether a proposal of the kind we are making would involve any extra expense or any serious expense, and, if it did, it might be a matter for consideration how far the Imperial Government could join, co-operate with the Cape Government in providing for it, but in the meantime I do not gather that Sir Gordon Sprigg has tommitted himself against such a proposal as is now before us, namely, that a portion, at all events, of the Cape Defensive Force should be organised and drilled in such a way as to constitute a force which might, if all other circumstances permitted be available for exterior purposes and for offence or defence outside the limits of the Colony. And I think I may say that the same idea is not excluded by Sir Albert Hime. It might be possible to make such arrangements as would secure that a portion of the forces were drilled, organised, and maintained in a position to enable them to take their place in a European line of battle if it were desirable or necessary, whereas as regards the greater portion of the forces we know perfectly well that such an amount of drill and discipline is unnecessary in order to enable them to meet the ordinary exigencies of native warfare. Therefore, if I am right in that I should also suggest that both Sir Albert Hime and Mr. Fuller, whose conditions are very much alike, would also have a private interview with the Secretary of State for War, and see how far they might make progress in the direction I have suggested. Unless Mr. Seddon would see any objection to that proposal I think we might consider then that the discussion on this branch of the question is closed so far as the Conference is concerned, although, no doubt, the Secretary of State will be good enough to report any results at which he may arrive with the Premiers of the Colonies concerned.
Mr. FIELDING: Permit me to say, Mr. Chamberlain, on the part of Canada, that the objections that are raised are not based upon financial reasons. It is not a question of our share of the sum of money which the Secretary of State for War mentions. That is not a very large sum, and I do not think there is in our Colony such a demand for retrenchment in this direction as is said to exist in Australia and New Zealand. Our difficulties are of a different kind, which it would not be necessary to enter into now, but I would not have it understood that the objections Canada takes are based upon the cost of the proposal at all. We are ready to spend that much money, and more, on our own organisation at home, which, we think, is a part of the best Imperial system, but I merely wish to guard against a suggestion that our objections are based upon the cost; that is not so.
Mr. SEDDON: So far as the Commonwealth is concerned it is altogether on a question of expense. I did not quote it, but New Zealand at the present time is spending on her defence about 200,0001, a year. That is with a popula- tion of 750,000-750,000 to 800,000 all told—whilst according to Militia Defence you are spending 500,000l. with a population of five millions, so that I think on the score of expense New Zealand compares much more favourably in that respect than Canada does. I would also like to say that our Volunrtees at the present time we might put it on record here from the last Report, dated March 22nd, 1902-number 19,612 men and officers out of a population of three-quarters of a million. At the present time that does not include the riflemen, who amount to about another 7,000, so that in respect to expenditure -in respect to the number of men-I think I may claim fairly that New Zealand has done its very fair share. I would wish, with the consent of the Conference, Mr. Chamberlain, to put in the Report of the Joint Defence Committee, which gives information which would be of value, I am sure, to other members of the Conference, and reasons for the stand taken by the New Zealand Parliament with respect to this matter. It might be of use, Mr. Chairinan, and I would like to hand this to the Secretary-the Joint Defence Committee's Report.
(Document handed to Secretary.).
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I shall accept the suggestion of the Chairman and confer with the Secretary of Sate for War; but I would like it to be clear. As I understand, there is a difference between what has been stated by the Chairman just now and what was stated by the Secretary of State for War. I understood the Secretary of State for War to say that the cost would be 180,0007. per annum, equal to about 91. per head of the force that would be deemed necessary, and I also understood from him that in respect to that matter- that 180,000/-- the question of expense would not stand in the way, but that the Imperial Government would be prepared to defray a portion of it. The Secretary of State in his speech just now inferred that the whole of it should be found by the Colonies. I did not understand so from the Secretary of State for War.
The SECRETARY OF STATE: I think that is a matter for discussion, Mr. Seddon.
Mr. SEDDON: I want to get it correct, because we have your view, Mr. Chamberlain, on the one hand that we are to find the whole of it, and from the Secretary of State for War, I understood, something different. I wanted to get things cleared up as we went along.
The SECRETARY OF STATE FOR WAR: May I say one word, just to clear that up? In regard to the general discussion, I have really nothing to add, practically, to what fell from the Secretary of State for the Colonies; but it is, perhaps, desirable that I should just say as much as this, that while I fully recognise the value of the discussion we have had to-day, I am a little disappointed at the reception these proposals were met with, both from Canada and from the Commonwealth Government. As regards the Canadian proposal I ought to say at once that while we should welcome anything which would bring up the Canadian forces to a more effective level, unless there is some radical change in the period of training, and in some other matters, it would be impossible for us to hope that those forces, in all 38,000 or 40,000 men who are at present enrolled, could be brought up to such a standard of efficiency as we desire. With regard to Australia and the suggestion of Sir Edmund Barton, there is not really, I think, very much gained by the proposal which he made. That is practically the goal to which we are already moving with regard to equipment, and it is not merely a question of organization, but it is a question of training, and on that I put, like Mr. Seddon, very great weight. What I would trge is this. I am a At little disappointed at this time that we cannot take action at present. this moment we have a large number of men in the various Colonies who are fit to become reservists of an Imperial force, men who bave already served in South Africa, therefore, the expense of training to the Colonies will for some years to come be much less than it would by enlisting fresh men. I had hoped that we might have arrived at something which would have enabled us to get hold of these men, and Mr. Chamberlain's suggestion that I should meet Mr. Seddon, and discuss the matter as far as it concerns New Zealand, I gladly accept. What I threw out with regard to their payment as reservists was this: if the Colonial Government holds in its own hands the power to decide whether they should be employed or not, then I should think the taxpayers of this country would probably feel that it was for the Colonial Government to pay until the moment that they come into the Imperial Service. If on the other hand any Colonial Government saw its way to allow them to become reservists at the call of the Imperial Government, then I think it would be a fair subject for discussion whether the Imperial Government should not meet some portion of the charge, but I think, as the Secretary of State for the Colonies said, that is a question we had better discuss quietly, and make our report.
The SECRETARY OF STATE: Then as regards the future, I under- stand that the Prime Ministers, some of them, are going to Scotland, and therefore will not be back, at any rate, until Tuesday. I think it would be necessary to have another meeting for military and naval defence, at which the Secretary of State for War, and the First Lord of the Admiralty will report the result of their private interviews, and we can get a record of what N 3
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