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The SECRETARY OF STATE: Gentlemen, we have had a very interest- ing discussion, but I am afraid that I cannot congratulate myself upon the probability of our arriving at any unanimous and definite conclusion. The proposal which has been made to you by the Secretary of State for War is, I think I may say, substantially the same as that which was suggested in the resolution which has been brought to your notice by the Prime Minister of New Zealand. It is, of course, that the whole of the Čolonies together should agree to keep a permanent reserve force of limited numbers always ready for service outside the limits of the respective Colonies. It is suggested that the xpenditure which such a force would require would not exceed 180,000., and I think the Secretary of State for War thought it was not beyond the means of the Colonies to provide that sum, especially as savings might be made in other directions by reducing the number of the ordinary Militia. At all events, 180,000l. a year would practically be about 4d. a head-not more- upon the whole population of the Colonies represented. It is not, therefore, a matter of great importance. That is the proposal. I should say, that clearly, it is not put before the Colonies with any idea whatever of forcing their hands, or of putting any pressure upon them in any emergency, which may hereafter arise, to give us assistance which otherwise they would not be ready to afford. That idea has never entered into the head of the Imperial Govenment. We are perfectly satisfied with the results of voluntary, purely voluntary, and spontaneous offers. We trust entirely to them in the future. We have no idea in the future of any more formal or definite arrangement, and of course it is understood in any such proposal as we have been considering that it would not be operative in any case unless the Government and the Parliament of the Colonies concerned approved of the proposed use to be made of this particular force. Well, we have to consider two points. Is such a proposal in itself desirable? Is it practicable? Is it desirable? In the course of the discussions previous discussions—and also the discussions to-day, the phrase has been used by ourselves, as well as by the representatives of the Colonies, "the arrangements and provisions by which the Colonies could "come to the assistance of the Mother Country." But really, I think, that phrase is an inaccurate one. It is not so much a question of the interests of the Mother Country, which is at stake; it is really a question, primarily, of the interests of the different Colonies concerned, and, secondly, of the interests of the Empire as a whole. But it is not the interests of the Mother Country in the same sense. We are not likely, I think, to ask for assistance to prevent Great Britain from being invaded, nor do I anticipate, nor do I think it within the reach of probability, that we should ever be engaged in an European war solely on account of the interests which may be considered to be directly English or directly those, of the United Kingdom. If, unfortunately, we should happen to be engaged in such a struggle, it is almost certain to be in connection with some question in which the Colonies, or one of the Colonies, is primarily interested. I think the greatest importance ought to be attached to the remarks of Mr. Seddon, in regard to these matters which come more particularly under his purview in connection with Australasia; but similar remarks may be made with regard to every other Colony. If you look to the diplomacy of Great Britain at the present time, in what does it consist? The amallest proportion of it is concerned with matters which are exclusively matters concerning the United Kingdom. It is almost entirely in regard to matters in which the Colonies are concerned. We have a diplomatic controversy and contention with the United States of America continually in regard to the interests of Canada. At the present moment in regard to some most serious questions of boundary involving deeply the interests and security of Canada. We have in the same way a controversy with France with regard to the New Hebrides and with regard to other matters in which Australia is interested and concerned. We have controversies with Germany in regard to many questions which arise in different parts of the world, and always something which concerns the self-governing Colonies or concerns our Crown Colodies and Dependencies. And, therefore, it is not for our- selves; it is not a selfish proposal that we are making, it is a proposal conceived, at any rate, as we believe, in the interests of the Colonies. We believe it to be an essential in the altered condition of things due to the

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extraordinary development of all military armaments, and to the improve- ments which have been made in quick communications; we believe it is essential in the interests of the Colonies that they themselves should be able to lay their hands upon a force which could at any moment be placed in line and pitted against the most highly-trained European forces. We think at present that the force does not exist in any single one of the Colonies. Sir Frederick Borden has told us, and we readily recognised the quickness and the admirable way in which a force was sent from Canada at the outbreak of the Boer War to our assistance in South Africa. Yes, but what does it amount to? A thousand men, 1,000 out of a population of five millions. What we say is that, if, instead of sending 1,000, you had had on three weeks' notice to send 10,000 or 20,000 men; in that case the arrangements of the force would have been very different from the actual arrangements of the much smaller force which you were able to send at so short a notice. And it is in order that there might be a considerably enlarged force as well prepared as the small forces which were sent at the outbreak of the war to take part in any war that may hereafter arise, and because we think it is necessary that such a force should exist that we pressed this suggestion upon you. I say then that in our view, in the interests of the Colonies, very much more than in the interests of the United Kingdom, it is desirable that there should exist such a reserve force in each of the Colonics. What use should be made of it we leave entirely to the spontaneous wish and desire of the Colony itself at any time in which an emergency might arise.

But, is it practicable? Well, we are told by the representatives of the Great Dominion of Canada and by the representative of the Commonwealth of Australia, that in the present condition of public opinion in those Colonies it would not be practicable to give us the assurance that any such scheme could be carried out. Gentlemen, I regret very much that such should be the case. Of course I am not competent to question it in any way. You alone are entitled to speak for your several Colonies, and it would be useless for me to pretend to dispute the statements which you have made. That being the fact, I am bound to say that in my opinion, public opinion in these Colonies must be very backward. I think it will have to progress, and that it will in the natural course of things progress, especially as the dangers which lie all round you are better appreciated. I know very well, of course, that at the present time these great Colonies have been free from anything in the nature of an attack upon themselves-it is all very well to rest upon that, but you may easily be too optimistic, and I think that anyone who takes even a superficial view of the present state of the world must feel that it is desirable that all in proportion to their means should be fully prepared for any emergency. But if you say that is not the case at present, it would be useless I think to proceed with Mr. Seddon's resolution or put it before the Conference, which evidently is unable at present to accept it. I can only hope that in the course of time the example which may be set by others will lead the Dominion aud the Commonwealth to re-consider the decision at which they appear to have arrived at at the present time. That does not apply of course to New Zealand, where Mr. Seddon represents a very different, and if I may be allowed without presumption to say so, I think a much wiser opinion. I think the suggestion which Mr. Seddon has made on behalf of his Colony is worthy of most careful consideration, and I would suggest that, as we cannot come to a common conclusion on the matter, Mr. Seddon should have a private conference with the Secretary of State for War, and I have no doubt that between them they might hit upon a plan, which at all events will apply to New Zealand even if it does not apply to any other Colony, and I am sure that in dealing with the principal matter my right honourable friend, the Secretary of State for War, will also take into consideration the suggestion which Mr. Seddon has made for sending to New Zealand a representative force of the British Army to drill with any such force as might be established there.

As regards the two Colonies in South Africa, of course we must admit that their position is somewhat exceptional, but I do not gather from what has been said either by Mr. Fuller or Sir Albert Hime that it might not be possible there to do everything we desire or that we think necessary.

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THE C.O. 885

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PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON

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