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desirous of having further concessions made instead of having a general deduction all along the line. If there are particular lines of goods that you are desirous of getting a market for, it would be very desirable that we should have a list of these.
The PRESIDENT OF THE BOARD OF TRADE: We thought probably that question would be raised in connexion with Mr. Seddon's resolution, but I certainly think it will be found that with an equal sacrifice of revenue by each Colony a very inuch better arrangement coull be made for the Mother Country by selecting certain goods, and giving a greater rebate on those than by giving a rebate of 10 per cent. all round.
The SECRETARY OF STATE: Yes.
The PRESIDENT OF THE BOARD OF TRADE: We should gain more, and the Colonies would not lose more in respect of the revenue collected.
The SECRETARY OF STATE: Of course I recognise that the Colonies would have to consider their vested interests.
The PRESIDENT OF THE BOARD OF TRADE: Oh, of course.
Sir WILFRID LAURIER: Then, as you have state, there are two ways of doing it either by a general reduction of tariffs or by a Free Trade list to be selected.
Mr. SEDDON: And there is a third way, namely, subsidising mail and freight-carrying steamers, and this raises the question where you have a difference in the rates which you levy on goods-no rebate put on the produce would alone counteract the freights as between Great Britain and Canada.
The PRESIDENT OF THE BOARD OF TRADE: Coal,, for instance ; it would be impossible for us to compete in coal with the United States.
Mr FIELDING: There are as cheap freights on British coal as the American gets on his coal.
Mr. SEDDON: I am speaking, myself, of cement. In our Colony we get cement from foreign countries, and it is the loy freights that give the main advantage, nothing else.
The SECRETARY OF STATE: Yes, there is a German cement.
Mr. PATERSON: Leaving out the articles in respect to which it is stated, in effect, in the Board of Trade memorandum, that Great Britain cannot compete with the United States in the Canadian market, even if aided by a much greater preference than that now accorded, the figures, briefly stated, show that the dutiable imports from Great Britain declined by 33 per cent. between 1893 and 1897, as compared with an increase of 22 per cent. from the United States, and an increase of 81 per cent. from other countries; that is to say, in the four or five years prior to the introduction of the preference there was a decline of 33 per cent, on imports, while at the same time there has been an increase of 22 per cent. from the United States, and of 81 per cent. from others, but a change took place during the following four years when the preference was in operation. During that time British importa increased 59 per cent.; from the United States 19 per cent.. and other countries 29 per cent; the increase in the total from other countries
was at the rate of 47 per cent. It has not only wholly arrested the decline as we look at it, but it has promoted trade, and cannot fail to promote tradę.
The PRESIDENT OF THE BOARD OF TRADE: In these years there was a general depression of trade which must not be left of account.
Sir WILFRID LAURIER: That applies all round.
Mr. FULLER: If the principle of preferential tariffs is extended to the Empire that would be a great advantage to those Colonies that have articles to sell-produce to sell-like flour and so on. For instance, South Africa is a very large customer for flour. If the same principle were to extend to the whole Empire, that we would give the proposed preferential tariff, an enormous advantage to those Colonies who have produce to sell. I take it that wider aspect or question ought to be remembered.
The SECRETARY OF STATE: I understand you to mean that you propose to offer us a preference of 10 per cent?
Mr. FULLER: Yes, more than that, 25 per cent.
The SECRETARY OF STATE: 25 per cent., and you offering it to the Colonies as well?
would contemplate
Mr. FULLER: I presume it is to be Imperial-these, reductions ?
The SECRETARY OF STATE: Yes, exactly.
Mr. FULLER: I think if it is so arranged, it would be a very great advantage to those of the Colonies that are selling to each other.
The SECRETARY OF STATE: Certainly,
Mr. FULLER: If duties are reduced in favour of the Colonies as well as the Mother Country, those who have produce to sell will greatly benefit.
Mr. SEDDON: Assuming negotiations were opened between America and Germany, the Americans and the Germans would say there are certain goods they send to us, goods of a certain class, as to which they would say, give us a rebate in respect of these goods and we in return will do the same to you; in fact, it is the basis upon which you commence reciprocity.
Mr. FULLER: Yes.
Mr. SEDDON: It may be that under those circumstances the Mother Country would be injured if that was done, because, if wool was taken direct to those countries, seeing the Mother Country depends upon her Colonies for supplying it, her own Colonies might by that means be doing an injury to the Mother Country, but there is no doubt in my mind that the Colonies could reciprocate and could obtain, both from America and Germany if you like, reciprocal treaties, and on some articles it would not really affect the Mother Country at all. But there is a danger in doing that, that the Colonies might injure the Mother Country by diverting their raw products from her, and sending them to these other countries direct. They, if this occurred, would be in a better position to compete against manufactures of the Mother Country than at present.
Sir EDMUND BARTON: I have no more to say, except that I think it would be wiser in coming to any resolution about tariffs if we confined it in some way so as to apply it to our relations with the United Kingdom to begin with. If these prove satisfactory then we could, if thought advisable,
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