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The SECRETARY OF STATE: Textiles?

Mr. SEDDON: Yes, for the purposes of comparison. I am prepared to show how imports from the United States more particularly have during tho last few years gone up the importation of boots and shoes has gone up since 1895, when it was 2,5167., to 59,4191. last year.

Sir WILFRID LAURIER: In your country?

Mr. SEDDON: In our colony. And steel from 7,000l. to 107,0007., and machinery and machines again from 25,000l. to 154,000/., comparing 1895 with 1901. These, of course, are articles-cotton piece goods-of course they are three times what they were then; that probably would affect the United States and Canada.

The SECRETARY OF STATE: Mr. Seddon, do you send anything from New Zealand to America in return; do you export anything?

Mr. SEDDON: Our exports to America are only about one-fifth what America exports to New Zealand, and our exports to America are principally wool and gum. Now the manufacturer of British goods going to Canada would have the advantage of the 10 per cent. as compared with all goods coming into Canada, the same goods, take them 15 per cent., and then we will arrive at some conclusion how far they are trespassing, although the advantago is given upon the English manufactured goods.

The SECRETARY OF STATE: You could give us that Mr. Paterson.

Mr. PATERSON: Oh, yos. I think I could give you all those points; I think I could get you all those points. As I say, I could give them to you to-day, but I would prefer not to give them till I have seen my colleagues. If it is not taking up your time I would, in a rough way, go over and show you the articles that you do compete with others in, in the different trades, bearing in mind as I have said before, that these goods are coming in under a general tariff which shows that our tariff is not prohibitory:

give you first the general tariff rates, and then the preferential tariff rates. These *figures are arrived at by taking the amount of imports and the amount of duty actually paid, and dividing the one into the other. The following table shows the average rates of each of the importations for 1901 under the general and preferential tariff on the principal lines imported from Great Britain :---

Cement

Earthenware

General Tariff.

Preferoutial Tariff.

30-4

20-7

Cotton

30.0

20.4

Drugs arid chemicals

23.8

15.1

30-3

20.0

Fancy goods

33.8

22-2

Flax, hemp, and jute

28-2

17-9

Fur and manufactures

16-1

11-9

Glass

26.0

17.1

Gold and silver manufactures

29-2

20.0

Iron and steel

23-0

11-6

Paints

12-1

7.6

Paper manufactures.

29-7

18.9

Silks

314

20.9

Soap

30.2

15.8

Woollens

33.4

23.0

The SECRETARY OF STATE: Yes, of course, I follow Mr. Paterson, that is only deducting 333 per cent. from the general tariff; that gives you in every case the reduction, but what I think Mr. Seddon desires and what I think would be useful, if you could kindly furnish it at our next meeting,

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would be a comparative amount of certain British goods which have been imported before the preference and after the preference, and the amounts of the same goods which have been imported from the United States during the same period.

Mr. PATERSON: I see.

The SECRETARY OF STATE: The articles that I think would be interesting are those named by Mr. Soldon: boots and shoes and leather manufactures, textiles, iron manufactures and machinery. Suppose we take those by themselves, these four or five different items, and show how far they have increased in British goods under the new tariff, and at the same time how far similar things had increased from the United States, if they have

increased.

Mr. FIELDING: Suppose the figures show that our trade with the United States is largely increased? That would not prove anything to our disadvantage. I repeat the argument of Mr. Paterson. If our tariff were so high that we were shutting out imports, there would be room for criticism. We have an incidental protection in our tariff' which in some lines may largely shut out imports, and give the market to our own manufacturers. But in most lines there is competition from abroad. If goods are coming in, one parcel from the United States paying $3 duty, while another of like character from Great Britain is admitted for $2, and if, under these circum- stances, the United States manufacturer is taking the lead, is this to be considered the fault of the Canadian tariff? Does it not rather show that

some persons over here are a little slow?

The SECRETARY OF STATE: Equite agree.

The PRESIDENT OF THE BOARD OF TRADE: In the case of heavy goods. America has an enormous advantage which might not he compen sated for by a preferential tariff. You would have to look at every case singly. If this list is to be made out in respect of cottons er of woollen goods the different classes should be distinguished as clearly as possible, because, I think, the more thai is done the more it would be found that England is supreme in one particular class, Germany, perhaps, in another, whereas if they are lumped together under one head, cotions or woollens, it looks as if the two countries were competing with one another; that is not so to the extent that appears on the surface in many cases. We will have to look very closely into each case in order to determine how far the competition extends.

The SECRETARY OF STATE: Suppose as a practical result of our conversation to-day we were to enter upon a negotiation with Canada upon the assumption that they give us very great advantages over anything they have done now, and that in return we should give them a rebate on grain duties or anything else; let us assume that was the basis of negotiation, then would it not be a part of the negotiation to find out on what articles we wanted them to give us this advantage?

.

The PRESIDENT OF THE BOARD OF TRADE: Certainly. ·

The SECRETARY OF STATE: A general reduction, say to increase the preference from 33 per cent. to 50 per cent., might not be of any advantage to this country, whereas, to put certain articles on the free list which are now on the dutiable list, might be of very considerable advantage to us.

Mr. FIELDING: So far as our Colony is concerned, it would help us very much if we had a list of the articles in respect of which you are particularly

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PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE

Reference :--

C.O. 885

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