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गय mmimmim
| PUBLE RECORD OFFICE
Reference :-
C.O. 885
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PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON
ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC- COPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH—NOT TO
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Great Britain has ever expended a fàrthing in the construction of railways. Private capital can do that.
The SECRETARY FOR WAR: We spent 6,000,0001. in Uganda for the development of railways.
Sir WILFRID LAURIER: I spoke of the United Kingdom. In the United Kingdom not one penny has been spent for the development of railways.
The SECRETARY OF STATE FOR WAR: Not in the United Kingdom.
Sir WILFRID LAURIER: We have in Canada contribute: largely to the building of the Grand Trunk, we have built the Canadian Pacific Railway almost entirely at our own cost; we are every day spending much more money on railways and publie works generally. Since I had the great pleasure of listening to Mr. Chamberlain's speech, I have had the opportunity of glancing over the Year Book, and I do not find that last year a single penny has been spent in public works in Great Britain by the British Government. If on the one hand you spent 30s. per head on the military expenditure, in Canada we spent last year $20,000,000 at least on public works, canals, railways, harbours, improvements in rivers, and so on, but the fiuances of Canada never were more flourishing than they are at the present tirne. We have a surplus by balancing yearly expenditure and yearly revenue of at least between $6,000,000 and $8,000,000, and every dollar of the surplus is spent on public works. And not only that, but we borrow money constantly. We are always adding to our debt for the henefit of the country and the building of new public works.
We have a trans-continental railway and we may have. another one complete perhaps within 10 years. The country is developing in all directions, and Canada is so situated that the cost of railway construction is very great, because the population of Canada is in groups scattered all over the continent. If we were to put the figures-I have not had time to do it on one side what is expended by the Government of Great Britain on military and naval expenditure, and, on the other hand, what Canada is spend- ing every year for public works, I think the difference would not be very, very great, so that at the very outset we are met with a difficulty which to my mind seems to be very nearly insuperable, if not absolutely insuperable, to the con- templation of the Colonies-I speak for my own at all events-coming into making a direct contribution to the Imperial Exchequer either for naval or military expenditure. It is just as well in these matters that wo should be perfectly frank and go into discussion upon what we can and cannot do, and I believe that everybody will admit that the conditions are not parallel which exist in Great Britain and which exist in the Colonies. I am happy to say that I think at this moment our Colonies are in a flourishing condition; at all events, speaking for my own, we are in an extremely flourishing condition, but the difficuties which beset us are very great, and I would not like at this moment to give a final word; but I simply throw out at once an objection which to my mind presses very heavily on any such system as has been advocated by Lord Selborne. I did not exactly understand, if I may call the attention of Mr. Seddon to the matter, the remarks which he made. As I understand, he rather spoke in the same direction as I do now, that it would be difficult for the Colonies to assume any more burdens than they carry at the present time, but I assume that was the tenor of his remarks, and if I understood correctly what he stated, he spoke his mind in the way that I havo spoken my own mind.
Mr. SEDDON: I would like at this stage to state that in getting out this return they have only taken the expenditure out of the consolidated revenue on defence, but we have an expenditure out of loan for barbour defences which amounts to a very large sum. I have the amounts here. I have taken them from our Year Book. They have only taken the amount expended out of the consolidated fund, and the harbour defences and the equipments, the payment of the rifles, the payment of the batteries, all that is coming out of
loan..
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The SECRETARY OF STATE: That is quite right, but we have done exactly the same with our own returns. We also are borrowing enormous sums of money, which we are not taking into account.
Mr. SEDDON: I was going to ask that question whether, under that head of capital expenditure, it is capital expenditure, or whether it is merely
maintenance.
The SECRETARY of STATE: Only maintenance.
The FIRST LORD OF THE ADMIRALTY: The House of Commons bas Banctioned liability for 27,000,000/. under naval and public works. That is not included.
Mr. SEDDON: As long as it is clear that it is on the same basis, that in all right.
Sir EDMUND BARTON: Mr. Chamberlain and Gentlemen, I take it that in this stage of the discussion it would be better to go into the general principles and discuss the positions in which the Colonies which we represent respectively stand, than to address ourselves closely to any specific proposal, that may give a closer approach to any action, but I think we all do want to understand at first, what is our position relative to this question, not only as regards public opinion but as regards our capabilities. I have been pleased to hear from Mr. Seddon and Sir Wilfrid Laurier the references which they have made to the self-governing colonies in respect of works of internal development and the varied subjects of government which are under- taken in those colonies beyond those which fall as a rule upon the taxpayer of Great Britain. It is just as well to clear the ground upon matters of this kind by a frank statement, in order that whatever we may be asked to do it may very soon be seen what only we are able to do. Now, Australia stands in precisely the same position that Canada and New Zealand do. The mere maintenauco of life, liberty, and the security of property are not the only subjects of government. The Government undertakes, and with the support, of course, of Parliament, a vast number of matters which are elsewhere confined to the action of private enterprise. It undertakes in these respects the work of the community. Chief among these are railway extensions, but there are many other subjects of public development by which we endeavour to increase the capa- bilities of the countries in which we live, and these are capabilities any increase in which, no doubt, is open to the participation of the rest of the Empire. Now these are works which must at once, and at the outset, be admitted to seriously limit our capabilities in the direction of a direct contribution. The taxpayer who is relieved of, or who has never been subject to, the burden which fails on the taxpayers in our struggling communities, can more easily perhaps afford a large contribution to naval and military defence than can the one I have first mentioned, who is undertaking the pioneer work of younger communi- ties, and I think this is a consideration upon which we cannot dwell too strongly in order to make it clear to those who are carrying on government at the seat of Empire what these limitations are, because then it becomes a question, not of what we would like to do, but of what we can do.
I would also like to make clear on behalf of the Australian Commonwealth other serious limitations of its capacity which I am happy to think may only apply to its earlier years but which,, nevertheless, are of vast importance at the present moment. In order that a constitution might be adopted by popular vote it was necessary to include in it certain financial provisions. Of these one casts upon the Government of the Commonwealth the necessity of returning to each State year by year for the first five years, and not merely year by year, but by payments month by month-returning I say to each State all the revenue collected in that State on behalf of the Common- wealth less the proportion of that State in the Commonwealth expenditure, or rather, less the money spent by the Commonwealth Government in that State. The worst, of course, is this, you have to apply a uniform tariff for the first time, and these different communities each of them has had a tariff in many D 3
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