78
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PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE
PITT
لسلتي
Reference :--
C.O. 885
ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC- COPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH-NOT TO
PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON
Evidence of 0.
Chadwick, C.M.G.
142
out through our agents. But I have no means of judging, but they certainly are very slow.
-Do you think it is worth while doing away with this system? Would it be any injury to the Colony to do away with it?
A. The Colony would have to have some similar system.
-You don't think it would make very much difference if the Colony dealt directly with the original firms !
A.-No, I do not.
*
THE ORDERING of CEMENT.
The CHAIRMAN -Gentlemen, you remember at one or two of our previous meetings the question was raised as to the Crown Agents having sent out to Hong- Kong a certain quantity of cement without its having been ordered here, and promised the Members of the Commission that I would have this matter thoroughly enquired into. I also stated at the time that it seemed to be a very extraordinary proceeding on the part of the Crown Agents, if it were true, and I doubted very much whether it had ever happened. The Director of Public Works, at my request, has enquired into the matter, and I will read you his report.*
Mr. SHEWAN-There is evidently a misunderstanding between the two Depart- ments; the one ordered and the other did not know anything about it.
The CHAIRMAN -I do not see how there could have been any misunderstanding between the two Departments. Mr. Ormsby was head of both Departments, and he ordered the cement.
Mr. SHEWAN -He said he did not know anything about it.
The CHAIRMAN -I think this instance shows how highly desirable it is that these statements regarding the Crown Agents should be thoroughly investigated.
Mr. SHEWAN.-But he distinctly declared that he knew nothing about it. The CHAIRMAN -The facts are that this cement was ordered by the Colony as these documents show, and, I think that this is another instance of how necessary it is that such statements should be thoroughly investigated in the interests of all concerned and especially of those against whom such accusations are brought. The statement was that the Crown Agents sent out cement that was not ordered.
Mr. SHEWAN -The mistake evidently arose in this way. It says here in this
letter-book that the cement should have been ordered and recorded in the books of the Praya Reclamation, and not of the Public Works Department.
The CHAIRMAN -Mr. Ormsby, from his long experience of the Crown Agents, ought to have been thoroughly well aware that the Crown Agents are not in the habit of sending out goods that are not ordered. It is satisfactorily shown here that the goods were ordered, and that the Crown Agents only did what they were requested to do.
*
*
*
Q-There is another point, Mr. Chadwick, that has been brought up in evidence, and that is with regard to the Crown Agent system. It has been suggested that perhaps the Government could arrange terms better than those given by the Crown Agents. Have you had experience of the Crown Agents!
A. I have worked hand in hand with them now for twenty-six years, almost exclusively.
Q.-And what is your opinion of the system?
A. On the whole. I think their system is exceedingly good. The occasions on which have had to complain are very rare. I have always found them provide materials of excellent quality at very reasonable prices.
Q-It has been suggested that, instead of having the Crown Agent system for the Colonies, it would be better to deal directly with manufacturers and shippers?
A. You would require to have some one to do it for you. Every time you wanted something you could not go to the Director of Public Works. The Crown Agents have inspectors-trusted inspectors-and they inspect all the goods and, generally speaking, they are very good. The system is satisfactory. I might explain what it is. The Crown Agents are appointed by the Secretary of State and their salaries are fixed. They are not paid out of the Imperial funds at all. These salaries are recovered by the percentages which are also fixed by the Secretary of State on
* Appendix No. 23: see p. 145.
}
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the cost of every order and any balance there is above the salaries sanctioned is credited to an Imperial fund to provide for pensions. And I may say that, out of the percentages, they have to find their own staff.
By Mr. SHEWAN-Have they special advisers too? A-They have advisers for every branch. Q-Who pays for them?
A-I think that is charged to the Colony.
-Do you think they are fit and proper persons to be entrusted with floating a loan for this Colony? I suppose you know, Mr. Chadwick, they did not give much satisfaction to the Colony years ago. Do you remember the question of exchange when they floated it in gold?
The CHAIRMAN.—It was decided locally that the loan was to be a gold loan. The Crown Agents had nothing to do with that. So far as the floating of the loan was concerned, it was very successful.
By Mr. SHEWAN.-Do you think they are well enough connected in the banking world to settle a loan?
A.—I should say so, but I have never been in contact with them financially. Q. It was in the papers the other day about a loan floated for Ceylon. That appears to be unsatisfactory too.
The CHAIRMAN.- observe that that was flatly contradicted in the House of Commons. Some one stated it was impossible to procure forms from the Crown Agents in time to apply for a share of the loan. It was shown that that statement was incorrect and that applicants had been afforded every opportunity of procuring forms. It is not at all an uncommon thing for the Crown Agents to be abused. have heard such abuses frequently during my service of twenty-two years, but, in every instance where it has been possible to investigate an accusation, the Crown Agents have always come out on the right side. As regards floating loans, I am not able to speak with authority but I feel sure that the Secretary of State for the Colonies would not entrust anybody with the floating of a loan if he did not think them competent to discharge such an important and responsible duty.
A-I think that local loans would be better raised locally than at Home, but whether that is the fault of the Crown Agents or of the Colony, I cannot tell. The Crown Agents are instructed by the Secretary of State as to how to raise the loan.
By the CHAIRMAN.-So far as our loan is concerned, they got us very good terms. Mr. SHEWAN.-There is no proof that we could not have got better.
The CHAIRMAN.-l'erhaps we might have got worse.
WITNESS. They give guarantees, and each Agent is bound in a large sum. Q. Do you understand whether they have experience and training to go in for the raising of loans?
A-I cannot say, I have never dealt with them financially.
Appendix No. 19.
DEAR SIR,
WITH reference to my remarks about the cost of materials supplied to the
Hong-Kong, January 3, 1901. Public Works Department and the cost of similar materials supplied to us from England, I send you the following list of building materials sent out to us from time to time and the cost thereof F. O. B. in English ports:-
Cast iron columns, lengths from 10 feet to 15 feet, 6 feet to 7 feet diameter,
5 to 8 cwt., each 6s. per ewt. £.o.b.,
Wrought iron roof principals, 50 feet and 20 feet spans, 16s. 4d. per cwt. f.o.b. Freight on above 30s. per ton, 1" diameter wrough iron bolts and nuts, 13s. per
cwt. f.o.b.
Belgian steel rolled beams, 5" × 2′′, in 17 feet lengths, £4 17s. 6d. per ton, f.o.b.~~
December, 1895.
Best English steel beams, 12" × 5", in 17 to 20 feet lengths, £6 17s. 6d. per
ton, f.o.b.-Junė, 1897.
Best English steel beams, 12′′ × 6′, in 24 feet lengths, £7 7s. 6d. per ton.—
January, 1899.