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PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE

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C.O. 885

PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC-

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-That is possible. It would encourage competition to open it out.

Is there any advantage in dealing with the Crown Agents?

-I can't see any advantage in dealing with the Crown Agents over dealing with any private firm. The only advantage, I think, is that it saves writing to a good many firms. You get them to do it for you, it is an advantage in the saving of time.

By the CHAIRMAN.—Is it not also an advantage, that the Crown Agents having such large dealings for the various Colonies, can obtain goods much cheaper?

A. They get 1 per cent. That is how they charge in the Public Works Depart-

ment.

Are they paid commission or a fixed salary?

They get 1 per cent. on the returns.

By Mr. SHEWAN. Then the more you order the more they earn?

The CHAIRMAN.—The Crown Agents are salaried officers, but the Crown Colonies are charged 1 per cent., which fees go towards paying the salaries of the Crown Agents and their staff.

WITNESS. The reason I mentioned the commission, is simply because it appears, from their accounts, taking last month, their commission at 1 per cent. was only $900.

By the CHAIRMAN.--Have you ever known a case of the Crown Agents deliberately sending out goods to the Colony that were never asked for by the Public Works Department?

A.—As far as I remember, there have been mistakes in consignments. Q. It was not wanted?

-We would not accept it.

Q.-Is anything ever sent out except by requisition?

invoice.

-That is all; we simply compare every time we get the bill of lading with our

Q-And if you have not ordered the goods you send them back to them? A. Yes.

Q-Have you ever known a case of cement arriving in your Department without requisition ?*

A.-No, never.

Q-And you were in your Department during the whole time Mr. Ormsby was Director of Public Works?

A. Yes. I think I made a mistake just now in talking about $900 to the Crown Agents. $90,454 was their total account, on which they got 1 per cent. In fact, have their total account here since 1894, and it has only been beaten once, and that was in 1894.

Q.-Would you kindly give us that return, please?

-Yes, I will give it to you to-morrow-that is, the stores received from the Crown Agents from 1894 to 1901 included.†

The CHAIRMAN.-There is a good deal of misapprehension about the Crown Agents. They are Civil Servants and salaried officers, paid out of the public funds. Of course, they have a very large establishment.

By Mr. SHEWAN.-Would it be possible for you, when indenting for any particular article to ask them to kindly tell you who the different tenderers were?

A. They do so; they send the tenders to us.

Q. Do you notice if they particularly favour any one?

A-I have not seen a complete list of the people they deal with. We may have ten tenderers, and thirty may be on the list, but they send out the tenders received to us here. They always accept the lowest.

Q. The tendering doesn't seem confined to a few?

A. There are usually a lot of tenderers, as far as that goes-six or seven.

Q-Are they the same names always?

A-Yes, generally speaking, for the same articles.

Q.-You don't get a wide range of firms?

A.--No.

-For instance, in iron girders?

-I should say six or seven.

-There should be a great many tenderers for that?

141

A.---I don't know the conditions upon which they take these names and put them on the list.

By Mr. MASTER.-Can you tell from the files in your Department whether the Crown Agents are in the habit of taking tenders from the same firm?

A. Yes.

Mr. MASTER-I should like to know that.

By Mr. SHEWAN.—Mr. Wood, do I understand you to say that the Crown Agents have a list of people from whom they invite tenders, and that they don't ask tenders from anybody not on the list?

A.-No.

Q.-So there must be some way of getting on the list?

-You apply to get on the list.

Q-I think it would be advisable to get a list.*

A. I daresay they would send you that.

*

Q. In regard to the Crown Agents for the Colonies, do you think that that is a Evidence good system? A.--Yes.

Q-You don't think it would be better for the Government to deal directly with manufacturers and suppliers in England?

A.-No.

-Do you think there is any other alternative?

A.--I happen to know a good deal about the Crown Agents. I think myself it is

an extremely well run Department.

Q-Would you be surprised to hear that the Colony paid a great deal more for iron work than a private firm?

A. Yes.

Q. I should not. I should say you would be much more likely to get a cheaper article by going direct to the maker.

A. Even private firms would have to employ an agent. ૨. I don't see it is necessary.

don't get any chance of offering.

As it is they have a list of tenders, and the others

A.-I do not think it is a bad system, because it means that all the people on their lists are good and reliable people.

Q-That may be, but there may be a lot of good people not on that list? A. No, I do not think so.

-But we know from what was exposed in connection with the War Office that

there must be?

A. I think that the Crown Colonies are better served than the War Office. Q-Do you think it is right for the Crown Agents to send material here that was never asked for?

A. I should be surprised to hear they had done so.

Mr. SHEWAN. As a matter of fact, they have done so.

The CHAIRMAN. I am not aware of that.

Mr. SHEWAN.-Well, I will clear that up for you.

The CHAIRMAN. It is not at present before the Commission.

Mr. SHEWAN. It will be before the Commission.†

goods?

By Mr. SHEWAN-That would not happen if the Department ordered its own

A-I always thought it did.

By the CHAIRMAN. Is there anything you wish to add to the evidence already given by you?

A.--No.

***

of

J. Orange.

of

Q-What is your opinion of the system of ordering goods through the Crown Evidence Agents? Is that a good or a bad system?

A. The only complaint that I have against them is that they are very slow. I L. Gibbs. have heard it said that goods got out through them are more expensive than those got

Appendix No. 23 : see p. 145.

† Appendix No. 21: no: printed.

Appendix No. 22 ; ser p. 144.

+ppendix No. 23 : se p. 145.