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PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE
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C.O. 885
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PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON
ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC- COPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH-NOT TO
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Sir John Forrest.] I should like to put my objection, sir, in regard to the Mail Service as strongly as it is possible to do.
The Secretary of State.] Yes, it will be noted, and Sir George Turner and Mr. Kingston agree with you.
Mr. Kingston.] Yes.
The Secretary of State.] Sir George Turner and Mr. Kingston-Mr. Kingston preferred to accept this.
Mr. Kingston. I preferred the existing arrangement, Wednesday from Adelaide, but otherwise I adhere to the Australian arrangement.
The Secretary of State.] The Saturday arrangement. Mr. Kingston.] Yes.
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The Secretary of State.] Australian immigration. I think I explained to you what the position was, and how important it is for us to see that nothing is done unnecessarily offensive or injurious to our Indian fellow-subjects, and I have suggested to you the consideration of the Natal legislation, which, although I do not pretend that it is satisfactory to our Indian fellow-subjects, nevertheless does avoid stigmatising them by name as being unfit for civilised life. The Natal arrangement places in the category of prohibited immigrants persons who are unable to write in the English language a passage which is submitted to them as a test. In the Natal Bill the passage, I believe, is scheduled to the Bill, but that, of course, is not necessary; it may be any passage, and it might be a different passage at different times in order to avoid the possibility of a person learning how to write such a passage without knowing its meaning; and I think it would give you all that you require. It would enable you to exclude the class of immigrants that you think would be undesirable in Australia. If you can see your way to accept that, then I suggest that the various Bills be made identical in character, and in that case there would be no further objection to them on this side.
Mr. Reid.] I have thought very carefully, Mr. Chamberlain, over your observations, and I think we ought to endeavour at all times to meet, as far as we can, the complex circumstances of the British Empire. Unfortunately, this is regarded in Australia as a matter so vital that I am compelled I should not do my to represent to you the existing state of feeling. duty as representing New South Wales if I did not inform you that on this question there is a deeply rooted and almost universal feeling which is shown by the fact that the other branch-the upper branch of the legislature, as it is called, which is very slow to adopt legislation of this kind-passed this Bill without interposing any delay. The feeling is really so admittedly strong and almost universal. We had a clause in the Bill as it left the Assembly which left the power in the Executive Council of excepting any person or class of person by proclamation. The other branch did not see the wisdom of that as compared with clause 4, which they inserted, and which seems to me to remove much of that objectionable appearance much of it-to which you refer. For instance, under clause 4 of the New South Wales Bill, and it is precisely the same as in South Australia-
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Mr. Kingston.] Yes.
"This Act shall not Mr. Reid.] I will just read the material part of it. apply, nor shall the Chinese Restriction and Regulation Act of 1888, apply "to ministers of religion, missionaries, native teachers, tourists," that is every possible British subject and foreign subject who desires to visit Australia for pleasure or instruction or even business relations-" merchant.' Now that is a very wide term.
Sir Edward Braddon.] That would include hawkers.
Sir George Turner.] That is a very wide word, “merchant.' Mr. Reid.] "Merchant" has not come down to "hawker" yet. science, or students, and the wives and families of such persons."
Men of
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Sir John Forrest.] Is this carried? Mr. Reid.] This is in the Bill. "Men of science, or students, and the wives and families of such persons, and also their domestic servants." Consequently, with those exceptions, a very wide number of persons would have the freest access to New South Wales under this Bill, and there is no limit as to the time they stay; there is no obligation put upon them to undergo any exceptional treatment. When they arrive they are absolutely outside the operation of this Act in every way. There is one exception which I shall mention. When they leave their country they have to bring a certificate endorsed by a British consul, or an accredited representative of the British Government at the place where the same is issued-a certificate.
Sir John Forrest.] A passport.
Mr. Reid.] Practically it would be a passport, but there is absolutely no restriction upon them as to the time they stay, as to the circumstances under which they live there; so that it removes, I submit, the most seriously objectionable feature to the people themselves, and to the Government here, of a total prohibition. It is altogether too vital a point for us to put on the question of education, or ignorance, or poverty. We cannot veil the issue in that way. We really feel in this legislation, situated as we are so near these hundreds of millions of coloured people, that we must set up at once a clear barrier against the invasion of coloured labour, and coloured labour has already assumed various phases in the Colonies. There is one phase Sir George Turner referred to, the hawker, the Indian hawker who is coming in increasing numbers.
Sir John Forrest.] We abolished our Hawkers' Act to get rid of these Indian hawkers.
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Mr. Reil.] He goes over the interior, and into lonely places, and many complaints are made because in our country the women stay at home during the day, and the men are away during the day and perhaps half the night. They make very great complaints of the conduct of these hawkers; they frighten the women, they insist, and altogether you will understand the situation in the bush is not a nice one for the females; that is only one aspect of it. But quite behind and above all these details, we are sternly resolved that there shall be a white Australia, and we feel that the sooner we put this barrier up the better for all parties. And then as to the general scope of the Bill. It might be, sir, that we have made a mistake in our definition, but we wish to avoid, as far as we can, the personal application of this legislation to any particular race or country. I have some reason to believe, for instance, that the Japanese will regard such legislation as this without much feeling so long as we do not specify them, so long as we do not couple them with the Chinese, and have Chinese and Japanese Restriction Acts. They would resent that bitterly, I believe. A mere vague general definition such as we have adopted, which does not seem to point to any particular people or race, does not seem to disturb their susceptibilities much in Japan; but I must say it has become serious question with us. We see the inroad beginning at different points and in different shapes. Here is this coloured flood coming in upon ue, and we feel that we cannot have any holes in the dyke; we feel that we must present a solid front to this danger, and under those circumstances we feel that the course taken in Natal would not be one we could follow. I will just put this case: we have had a Chinese Restriction Act for some years, still the number of Chinese in New South Wales in proportion to our population would represent a residential Chinese population in England of 500,000 Chinamen, and let us just suppose that 10,000 Chinamen made their in Great Britain to settle down among the English people. appearance Under such circumstances, even though you have forty millions of people, you know the convulsion that would create. Well, we are just next door to China, and the principle of our legislation is one which, I think, must commend itself to the British Government; that is to say, we wish to preserve unmistakeably the character of Australian colonisation as that of the British race; and although it may seem to those at a great distance from us and from them that our conduct is not quite in accordance with the most broad
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