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Sir George Turner.] They will not know the date altogether. Mr. Escombe.] Of course they will if it is Mr. Reid.] This is not a calendar.
every three
years.
The Secretary of State.] It is not worth much discussion. Those in favour of putting in "triennial" please to hold up one hand.
time to time.'
The Secretary of State counted five.
46
The Secretary of State.] Those that would prefer periodical" or "from
The Secretary of State counted six.
The Secretary of State.] "Periodical" it is.
Mr. Kingston.] That would form an additional reason for suggesting a date for the first meeting.
Sir George Turner.] Leave that to the Home Authorities.
The Secretary of State.] I think that is a sufficient suggestion. We know that you think that about three years would be about the right date. Then Mr. Reid will move that. Will you second it, Mr. Seddon?
Mr. Seddon.] I do not see my way to do so.
Sir George Turner.] I will second it.
Mr. Seddon.] I do not like that first part.
The Secretary of State.] Mr. Reid will move, and Sir Hugh Nelson will second it.
Mr. Kingston.] I shall be unable to assent if we say we consider everything satisfactory.
Sir Wilfrid Laurier.] You see, Mr. Seddon, the answer there is the first step is confederation. It is a strong argument towards confederation. I do not think you can suggest scattered Colonies, surely, to-day.
Mr. Seddon.] We have said it once. We have asked these treaties to be denounced; is not that political?
Sir Wilfrid Laurier.] Yes.
are,
Mr. Seddon.] What is the use of saying "altogether satisfactory"?
Sir Wilfrid Laurier.] Because they are satisfactory. I think the treaties
I hope, to be denounced.
The Secretary of State.] You have been good enough to give me your opinions upon that. I think you will find they will carry very great weight. I will just put that resolution.
Sir E. N. C. Braddon.] Might we not pass this resolution with a rider to the effect that Mr. Seddon, as I understand, and I, certainly, would desire to see something done immediately?
The Secretary of State.] I think I should have to ask desire.
you
to say
what you
Sir George Turner.] Because when you suggest something, we may all agree with it.
Sir Wilfrid Laurier.] I am strongly of your mind, Sir Edward, but I do not see what practical shape we could give it.
The Secretary of State.] This is the first time, and I consider this is an important declaration of opinion. You do not actually and by name establish
a council, but you ask for a periodical conference.
Mr. Seddon.] That is all right.
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The Secretary of State.] And the first time in our history and in our Imperial history we are suggesting and agreeing to the desirability of a periodical conference of the representatives of all Colonies. beginning of it-the beginning of a federal conference.
That is the
Mr. Seddon.] We are all agreed about the conference, but it is saying that we are satisfied that the political relations are of a satisfactory character, when I am strongly of opinion that they want an alteration, and I do not want to commit myself to the contrary by voting for this resolution.
Sir John Forrest.] What sort of alteration do want?
ditions.
15
you
Mr. Reid.] Do not lose sight of the following words "under existing con- Now you must clearly see that they clearly express our opinion. Your opinion remains the same. You clearly see from the trend of opinion that this is the only practicable thing you can do.
Mr. Seddon.] I am not going to be a party to pass any resolution that does not express my views.
Sir George Turner.] You can dissent,
Mr. Seddon.] I mean to say that will stop myself, and it will stop others working to the end that we have in view.
The Secretary of State.] It will not stop them at all. Mr. Seddon.] It will have that effect.
The Secretary of State.] It will not stop me, but it will stop my doing what I dislike more than anything else, what I regard as dishonest, giving the public the idea that this thing can be practically accomplished, when I know that it cannot be. I have the same opinion that I always had, that it is the thing to be worked for in the future. I hope it will be possible. I hope three years hence it will be more possible than it is now; but to say that it is possible to-day, and you are arguing that it is possible, when one sees what differences of opinion there is, it is impossible.
Mr. Kingston.] I take it this is the expression of our opinion in reply to the agitation at the present time for a closer political union, and no more, and
I do not understand that the terms employed really amount to a declaration that there is nothing in regard to our relations with the Imperial authorities which we would not desire to see altered.
The Secretary of State.] Oh, certainly not.
Mr. Kingston.] No, it is passed for this specific purpose, and so I will vote
for it:
The Secretary of State] Sir Hugh Nelson, if you do not second it I will
ask Sir Gordon Sprigg to second it.
Sir Gordon Sprigg.] Yes, certainly.
The Secretary of State.] Those who are in favour of the motion will say "Aye."
All said "Aye" except Mr. Seddon who said "No."
The Secretary of State.] That is carried, Mr. Seddon dissenting. Sir E. N. C. Braddon.] I think I will dissent. The Secretary of State.] Do you dissent ?
Sir E. N. C. Braddon.] I dissent, not entirely to the matter, but to the form, to the absence of any declaration in favour of that closer union.
The Earl of Selborne.] It can be explained, Mr. Chamberlain, that that dissent is from the latter part, not from the former part.
Mr. Kingston.] Let me point out that it is not indicated there at all, the possibility of some of these gatherings, at the least, being held outside Great Britain. I think that would be an additional attraction, if they could be so held say in Canada in the first instance, or in Australia.
P 3
POLITICAL
RELATIONS,
POLITICAL RELATIONS.
}