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PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE

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C.O. 885

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ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC- COPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH-NOT TO

PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON

POLITICAL RELATIONS.

PRIVY COUNCIL,

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Sir John Forrest.] The resolution says in the United Kingdom.

The Secretary of State.] No, it does not say in the United Kingdom, it leaves it open.

Mr. Kingston.] Introduce words showing the latitude given, and which, I think, would make it additionally acceptable to the Colonies.

The Secretary of State.] I think we must not go into detail. I am quite prepared to accept that.

Mr. Kingston.] The criticism to which it would be subjected is that we want a repetition of a very pleasant trip here.

Sir George Turner.] It is just as pleasant as if we had it in one of the Colonies.

Mr. Seddon.] Put it as three separate resolutions, and we can dissent against the first, second, and third, as we think best.

The Secretary of State.] Very well. We will put it again. The first is: "The Prime Ministers here assembled are of opinion that the present political relations between the United Kingdom and the self-governing Colonies are generally satisfactory under the existing condition of things." are in favour of that resolution say "Aye."

Those who

All the members of the Conference except Mr. Seddon and Sir E. N. C.

Braddon: "Aye."

The Secretary of State.] On the contrary, "No."

Mr. Seddon.] No.

Sir E. N. O. Braddon.] No.

Mr. Reid.] It is owing to their geographical position.

The Secretary of State.] "They are also of opinion that it is desirable, when- ever and wherever practicable, to group together under a federal union those Those who are in favour of that Colonies which are geographically united."

please say "Aye."

All the members of the Conference? "Aye." The Secretary of State.] On the contrary, “No.”

No response was made.

The Secretary of State.] The "Ayes" have it; that is carried unanimously. Mr. Reid.] Of course it is a thing not to be mentioned at all, Mr. Chamberlain; but it will be entirely understood, I am sure, without mentioning it, that if such a conference is held it will be quite a different thing from this.

I mean we will come as representatives of a Government at our own expense. You see we need not mention that in any way.

The Secretary of State.] It is not necessary.

Mr. Reid.] But that is understood.

The Secretary of State.] That is clearly a small matter.

Mr. Reid.] This was a family gathering.

Sir E. N. C. Braddon.] Would not this be the opportunity of considering the question of retaining the right of appeal to the Privy Council which deals with our political relations?

Mr. Reid.] It will be rather awkward in view of the fact that we have a Convention sitting in Australia. It seems like an attempt to influence the Convention in a certain way; for instance, you and I hold opposite opinions.

Sir E. N. O. Braddon.] I hold a certain opinion.

Mr. Reid.] I hold an opinion on the opposite side. I think it would be injudicious. I am quite prepared that there should be leave to appeal to the Privy Council. Any individual aggrieved shall have the right to appeal to the

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Queen in Council for the right to have a case transferred up to the Judicial Committee; there should be a right of consideration on the part of the Home Government whether a particular case is entitled to be decided on.

Sir George Turner.] Will you go a step further and give an equal right to the high court of the federation to allow an appeal?

Mr. Reid.] I agree with that, too.

Sir George Turner.] That is what I asked for at the Federal Con- vention.

Mr. Reid.] But if it is to be a general appeal without any special direction

as to whether it is to go or not, the Federal Court in Australia is simply an additional barrier for litigants to get over.

Sir Wilfrid Laurier.] That is not the point. That is a matter altogether for Colonial legislation, but the Imperial matter is the composition of the Court.

Mr. Reid.] That is not the matter we are talking of; we are talking of a different matter.

would refer you The Secretary of State.] I should like to understand whether again to that question. I think it must be seen by all the Premiers that the present arrangement for representation of the Colonies upon the Privy Council is not satisfactory, and it can so easily be amended by the action of the Colonies themselves. Of course we do not press you to do anything, but

you

desire that these Colonial judges of great reputation should take their proper places on the Privy Council, then they must be permanently established here with a sufficient salary from the Colonies.

if

Sir Gordon Sprigg.] They must live in England?

The Secretary of State.] They must live in England.

Sir George Turner.] Would it be a right thing to have a judge representing

a Colony and paid by a Colony; he would be a kind of paid advocate.

The Secretary of State.] It is the same; the Indians are paid; everybody is paid separately.

Sir George Turner.] Are they?

The Secretary of State.] Most of the English judges are not paid at all; it

is an honorary post.

Sir John Bramston.] There is one judge receives a salary.

Mr. Reid.] Is he paid a salary—an adequate salary?

Sir John Bramston.] He is paid 8001. a year.

the

Mr. Reid.] The serious point of this matter, to my mind is this: Judicial Committee of the Privy Council is essentially an Imperial institution, and, for instance, take the Colonial Office; why should we not pay something towards the expense of this Department? It is one of the glories of the Empire that there is a Judicial Committee. It is essentially an Imperial tribunal. The judges are appointed by the Queen under the advice of the Imperial Government, and it seems to me that it is almost bringing down the character of the tribunal that any part of it should be paid for by a small isolated part of the Empire-that his pay should come from a locality while his position when he became a member of the Committee is that, not of an Australian judge, but of one of Her Majesty's judges sitting on the Judicial Committee. He ceases to be a Colonial judge in any sense; he is one of Her Majesty's judges, and it is only a matter for them to consider. Does it not seem rather to detract from his position that a locality should It is a matter for pay the salary of an Imperial judge? That is all. consideration.

Sir John Bramston.] It is for those gentlemen who are here we do not ask you to pay for them, but we only say that there is no provision for their

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