PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE
Reference :-
LICO. 885
PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON
ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC- COPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH-NOT TO
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PACIFIC CABLE COMMITTEE:
The act of the Commissioners does not bind the Governments. If we were conversant with all the conditions, and able to take absolutely definite lines, the Commission would be a
The Hon. Dr. Cockburn: We want to know inore.
superAuity.
The Hon. Mr. Duffy: We must see some prima facie chance of your joining in.
The Hon. Mr. Reeves: I think there is a prima facie chance. If we are not in accord on every I cannot believe it is impossible for four point here, it does not mean that we shall never be so. Governments to settle this question of the basis of contribution. I think they will say it will be possible, rather than see a magnificent project like this ruined. This question takes me absolutely by surprise, and I tell you frankly I had no instructions on it.
The Hon. Dr. Cockburn: We should make each step such as may form a basis for future operations. Do not despair because the common ground does not embrace everything at once.
who are agreed together express their opinion.
The Hon. Mr. Cook: That simply ineans waiving all this, then?
The Hon. Dr. Cockburn: I am talking of that particular point.
The Hon. Mr. Cook: That point is the main point.
The Hon. Dr. Cockburn: It does not necessarily involve all.
The Hon. Mr. Cook: Yes, it does.
The Hon. Mr. Duffy: The word " equal" occurs.
Let the Colonies
The Hon. Dr. Cockburn: I have coine here to discuss and act on behalf of my Government in certain things; but no representative can act in respect of new things altogether. I do not say what the attitude of South Australia will be on this subject, but it is one which——
The Hon. Mr. Cook: Your case is not the serious one-New Zealand's is the serious one; it is an attitude which I confess I did not expect would be assumed.
The Hon. Mr. Reeves: Well, as I was saying, the coming up of the whole question took me by Burprise.
The Hon. Dr. Cockburn. Why not record that the Colonies of New South Wales, Victoria, and Queensland are of opinion that the contributions should be equal from the various Colonies, and that the delegates of New Zealand and South Australia, not having previously considered the question, did not concur?
The Hon. Mr. Reeves: And we ask that our Governments be allowed a further opportunity of considering ?
The Hon. Dr. Cockburn: We want to consider.
We know Victoria is behaving in a very generous manner unquestionably, so is New South Wales-she is more interested than Victoria, but not so much as Queensland.
The Hon. Mr. Duffy: We do not blame you at all; we blame New Zealand. I understood Mr. Ward agreed to join equally in the project.
The Hon. Dr. Cockburn: Do not let it appear that Mr. Ward is absolutely hostile to this.
The Hon. Mr. Cook: It is no use talking unless there can be some fair dealing. We come back to the old position, and will have to put in a claim to have the landing place in Sydney; we have almost equal claims with Queensland, but surrender the print to get it settled, and now you ask us to carry you further; we do not think it is fair.
The Hon. Dr. Cockburn: No; we do not ask that.
The Hon. Mr. Reeves: We ask that my Government be allowed further time to consider; I cannot see why the Conference cannot allow this to go, and leave it for the Governments to negotiate; it is purely a domestic matter.
The Hon. Mr. Cook [with map]: There is New Zealand standing alone: we are taking a special line down to her at a cost of 114,8007. on purpose to get New Zealand in, and she wants us to give her further guarantees.
The Hon. Mr. Reeves: Our guarantee would be a pretty heavy one anyhow for our population, and if you left New Zealand out it would not be an Australasian cable.
The Hon. Mr. Cook: No, it would be an Australian one.
The Hon. Mr. Reeves: I did not expect this to be the main business of the Conference. It seeme But it is not necessary to make
to me it should be n matter of negotiation beween the Governments.
a dend stop now, just because New Zealand will not agree to come in on an equal basis.
The Hon. Mr. Duffy: It is a curious combination-the Colony least interested and the Colony most interested will not come in.
The Hon. Dr. Cockburn: You have discussed it before.
The Hon. Mr. Cook: This thing has been thrashed out with Mr. Ward, I understand.
The Hon. Mr. Reeves: I am not aware of that.
The Hon. Mr. Cook: Mr. Ward made a very astute bargain with us before, and he wants to make further good terms.
The Hon. Mr. Reeves: I have read Mr. Ward's speeches very carefully, and I do not see the faintest indication of the equal basis anywhere.
The Hon. Dr. Cockburn: It has never been expressed or understood in any way whatever.
The Hon. Mr. Cook: Queensland recognises that they are getting some advantage in getting the landing place. I think we had better have a specific resolution on this matter of the contribution part from South Australia—take a vote on it those who are not prepared to vote, let that be attached to the resolution.
The Hon. Mr. Duffy moved,-" That the Colonies joining contribute equally to the undertaking." The Hon. Mr. Thynne seconded.
The IIon: Mr. Cook: If New Zealand and South Australia do not agree, how shall we put it?
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The Hon. Dr. Cockburn: I do not say we agree or disagree, but as this is a new question, and Dever been considered by my Government, and a departure from all their recognised modes of under- taking federal affairs, and as it might be a bar to the facility with which they should be undertaken in future, I should like time to further consider it.
The Hou. Mr. Cook: Mr. Reeves has to go to-morrow-if he could stay over till Monday I would prefer postponing it.
The Hon. Mr. Reeves: My steamer leaves Brisbane on Tuesday.
The Hon. Mr. Thynne: I think you could catch her at some of the ports by staying for the "Wodonga."
The Hon. Mr. Reeves: I do not care to risk it. I shall simply not record my vote against it, so
as to leave my Government a free hand, and will communicate the temper of the Conference and the gist of the opinions expressed by the Conference to my Government in writing.
The Hon. Mr. Duffy: And the record will be that this was moved, and seconded, and carried- the representatives of South Australia and New Zealand refraining from voting pending further instructions.
The Hon. Dr. Cockburn and the Hon. Mr. Reeves appeared to assent to this, without saying anything.
The resolution was carried. Hon. Dr. Cockburn and Hon. Mr. Reeves refraining from voting. The Hon. Mr. Cook: Now to deal with this resolution:-
"In consideration of South Australia joining equally with the others in the Pacific Cable project, they will be prepared, with other countries interested, namely, Great Britain and Canada, to guarantee that Colony against actual loss in connexion with their transcontinental line." The Hon. Dr. Cockburn: With regard to this question of contribution, say "the terms on which South Australia would be prepared to join"-strike out the word "equal" and use the word "join." The resolution is already recorded, then we get common ground; the voting explains the position.
An alteration was made in the wording of the resolution, which was moved by the Hon. Mr. Thynne, and seconded by the Hon. Mr. Duffy, and put by the Chairman.
The Hon. Mr. Reeves: I vote for that. Of course I may receive some instructions about it during the morning from my Government, but I take the responsibility meantime of voting for it.
The resolution was carried.
The Hon. Dr. Cockburn :-May I ask-it is not much difference-instead of "on behalf of his
Government," put (in yesterday's resolution) that " Dr. Cockburn be invited to make a proposition embodying the terms on which South Australia would be prepared to join the other Colonies." It expresses as much as I can do. I do not want to appear to be doing more.
This was agreed to.
The Hon. Mr. Cook: Now there is the question of delegates-two have been asked for. The Hon. Dr. Cockburn: Well, I have instructions from my Government to ask for the appoint- ment of a delegate to represent the position of the Western Colonies, not with a view of influencing the voting, but simply to secure the position of these Colonies being brought before the Commis- sioners, and I am requested, as you all know, by Sir John Forrest, to press this matter on behalf of Western Australia, which I am prepared to do to the utmost. I also make the same request from Tasmanin. The interests of Canada and Great Britain in this matter are homogeneous. They are one Government each. Here we have a number of Governments; and it seems to me that there will be a difficulty in selecting two Commissioners who will be expected to speak from the various points of view of all the parties concerned. I therefore respectfully ask the Conference to take this request into consideration-which I am deputed by South Australia as well as the other two Governments to make and grant it.
The Hon. Mr. Duffy: I am afraid it would look awkward if Australia is about to federate and cannot agree upon the appointment of delegates.
press
The Hon. Mr. Cook: The reason given for the special representation of South Australia is, their special interests-the same would apply to all the others-therefore, I do not think he should that matter any further under the circumstances. There is no reason for getting a special representative.
The Hon. Dr. Cockburn: I am very sensible of the manner in which the Colonies have viewed the interests and claims of South Australia, and I am very anxious to see the Conference unanimous. Has any proposal as to representation been made ?
The Hon. Mr. Cook: I am glad to say we did talk this matter over, and Mr. Duffy and I are strongly of opinion that since the matter is a federal one, representatives of the two large Colonies should sit on the Commission, stipulating that on all important matters they should consult with all the Agente-General.
The Hon. Dr. Cockburn: That is, that the Commissioners representing Australia should, as far as possible, be the mouthpiece of the combined Agents-General. That, of course, to a great extent, provides for unanimous action.
The Hon. Mr. Cook: I take it we are settling up all our differences here beforehand.
The Hon. Mr. Reeves: Do you mean that this Conference should suggest to the Commissioners- should send a kind of suggestive mandate-that they should consult the combined Agents-General in London ?
The Hons. Messrs. Cook and Duffy: Yes.
The Hon. Mr. Thynne: I may say when Messrs. Duffy and Cook met me here before I suggested the names of two gentlemen, not Agents-General,-Lord Jersey, who is well acquainted with Australia, and Sir Edwyn Dawes, the latter a well-known financier, and a gentleman of great experience in large undertakings, such as the Suez Cars of which he is Chairman.
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