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249
זון
PUBLIC
·ECORD OFFICE
Reference :-
117 C.O. 885
248
PACIFIC CABLE COMMITTEE:
The Hon. Dr. Cockburn: No; we might be a federated Australia.
The Hon. Mr. Reeves: I think the guarantee would be the better form.
Some conversation took place as to what had been raid at the New Zealand Conference, the Hon. Dr. Cockburn having confidence that such an understanding had been expressed.
The Hon. Mr. Cook: We might leave the matter where it is for the present. Dr. Cockburn could consult with his Premier.
The Hon. Dr. Cockburn thought he could hardly do so in so short a time.
The Hon. Mr. Thynne thought some provision should be made that no landing place be afforded by any of the Colonies to any foreign or competing undertaking.
The Hon. Mr. Cook: That is already provided.
The Hon. Mr. Duffy: There is one little matter-if we construct the cable, will it be necessary to state that in our opinion it ought to be under Imperial guarantee ?
The Hon. Mr. Cook: I do not think there can be any question as to that.
The Hon. Dr. Cockburn suggested that it would help to get at the object in view if the Conference placed on record its views as to his Colony's attitude.
The Hon. Mr. Cook: Supposing we say that it is desirable that South Australia should come in, and (you, representing her here, having expresse! the desirability of joining) ask you to state your proposition on behalf of your Government, as to the terms on which you would be prepared to come in ?
The Hon. Dr. Cockburn: Supposing you put it, "It is the desire of this Conference that South "Australia should co-operate with the Colonies in obtaining this cable; and that, in the opinion of "this Conference, in the event of the Pacific Cable being constructed, either the Port Darwin line "should be taken over, or
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The Hon. Mr. Duffy: Do you mean constructed by the four contracting Colonies?
The Hon. Dr. Cockburn was not in favour of each Colony bearing the same amount of cost.
all co-operative work, he thought, the contributions should be on the basis of population.
In
The Hon. Mr. Cook: You see how you will hit us. Our inequality of population makes us take
We say we are outsiders, practically speaking, in this matter. an entirely different view.
a fair thing would be to let us off at least with an equal payment.
The Hon. Dr. Cockburn: It would prejudice our chance of coming in very much—
We think
The Hon. Mr. Duffy: You certainly should come on equal terms; you get greater consideration than any of the Colonies. Others would say, "We get nothing at all, and here is South Australia getting all this consideration,"
The Hon. Dr. Cockburn: No Colony is in the same position as South Australia; no Colony has had the same loss. Expecting us to come in equally is tantamount to saying that South Australia should not look for any consideration or generosity at all.
The Hon. Mr. Duffy: Well, the reciprocity should not be all on one side.
The Hon. Mr. Cook: If you take up the attitude of stopping outside, our obligation to you ceases that moment. If you are not coming in, there is no obligation regarding your line.
The Hon. Dr. Cockburn: I do not think that.
The Hon, Mr. Cook: I think so.
The Hon. Dr. Cockburn: We did not construct the line specially for the benefit of our own Colony; all mutually profited by it.
The Hon. Mr. Cook: I do not think you had an idea outside.
The Hon. Dr. Cockburn: But there are such ideas.
The Hon. Mr. Thynne: Do you know what the history really is? There was an arrangement made to carry a line across to the Gulf of Carpentaria from the East Coast of Queensland to meet the Eastern Company's cables. The Company's representatives were intercepted at Adelaide, where the Government induced them to alter their scheme by laying the cable to Port Darwin, which was to be connected with Adelaide by the South Australian overland line. The Company thereupon broke their bargain with Queensland. Queensland constructed its own line right across to Normanton at very grent expense, and South Australia thought it was doing a good thing for itself. They induced the Company to break their contract with us, and took upon themselves the burden of this overland line. That is the history.
The Hon. Dr. Cockburn: These secret histories are all very interesting, but one does not know how much there is in them. I have not heard that one before, Quite apart from that, stands the fact that South Australia bas for 24 years had this work constructed and carried on, and it has been recognised that it is of intercolonial importance and that South Australia is entitled to the At previous inter- goodwill, and something more, of her neighbours on account of her enterprise. changes of opinion between the Colonies it was recognised on all hands that South Australia would not be expected to contribute.
isolated The Hon. Mr. Cook: One thing should he set against another. It is recognised that; position has perhaps justified you in standing out-therefore no proposal to stand in with South Australia or anything of the kind has ever been made.
your
The Hon. Dr. Cockburn: In New Zealand, and in the debates there, it has been stated by the other Colonies that in the event of the Pacific Cable being constructed, South Australia could not be expected to contribute. Still, although that was the understanding, it was freely expressed in Committee that in the event of the cable being laid, the other Colonies would either compensate South Australia for the construction of her transcontinental line, or guarantee that her receipts would not be materially diminished.
The Hon. Mr. Cook doubted it; if in Committee, it was not reported. But you will find that the statement that South Australia could not be expected to contribute was reported.
PAPERS.
The Hon. Mr. Thynne: The other Colonies had to look to the future, and all they should ask South Australia to do was to keep the land line open to them as an alternative route.
The Hon. Mr. Cook: On condition they join us.
The Hon. Dr. Cockburn: You will make it easier if you do not absolutely make that condition. We have to consider the attitude of the people of South Australia in this matter. If a resolution were carried such as I have indicated, it would go a long way towards causing the people of South Australia to view this project more favourably than they have hitherto done, and I have very little doubt that South Australia would contribute. It would come to just the same thing.
The Hon. Mr. Cook: I think in the discussion of these matters it would be better not to go into a strict analysis of rights on either side.
The Hon. Dr. Cockburn continued he would suggest that the resolution be passed in the form he had indicated, and he would say that under the circumstances he would do his utmost to persuade his Colony to contribute towards the construction of the line.
At this point the Hon. Dr. Cockburn found the passage in the New Zealand Conference Report which he had been looking for, which he passed on to the President to read, and conversation took place as to how far any expression had been given in Committee to the opinion that, in the event of the Pacific Cable being constructed, South Australia should be compensated.
The Hon. Mr. Cook: Since there is no record of it, I think we had better take the case on its merite.
The Hon. Dr. Cockburn: I only raised the point because Mr. Reeves was speculating on the views
of Mr. Ward,
The Hon. Mr. Cook then drafted the following resolution :-
"That, in the opinion of this Conference, it is highly desirable that South Australia join the other Colonies in the Pacific Cable project, and, having regard to their vested interests in the transcontinental line, Dr. Cockburn be invited to make a proposition on behalf of-his Government embodying the terms on which they will be prepared to join the other Colonies in the Pacific Cable."
The resolution was put, when-
The Hon. Mr. Reeves anid: I should prefer " the South Australian Government be invited to state the terms." I think it should come from the Government.
The Hon. Dr. Cockburn: How would it do to have a general resolution of this kind :—
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"In the event of the Pacific Cable being constructed, and South Australia becoming one [Mr. Duffy interpolated something]--" that the Conference agrees either to take over the line or give a guarantee." ?
The Hon. Mr. Reeves said the resolution should be a definite one. It is a subject of considerable importance to the various Governments, and before they can make up their minds they must have details which we have not got.
The Hon. Mr. Cook: If Dr. Cockburn made a proposition we would not come to any definite derision with regard to details, but only lay down an equitable principle in proper language,
The Hon. Mr. Reeves: There' is this difficulty in taking the general principle: when once you get- into any kind of details, such as taking over the line or giving a guarantee of revenue, though they are broad and simple ones, they take you away from the general principle. It would be a question We should want to whether my Government could go into that without more information before it. know what we are called upon to guarantee.
The Hon. Mr. Duffy: We ask Dr. Cockburn to make a proposition. Then we should get further details, particulars of expenses, &c., and then give an answer.
The Hon. Dr. Cockburn: If the resolution is carried in that form, it will make my task in persuading the Colony to join in more difficult.
The Hon. Mr. Cook: Asking you to name your own terme make it more difficult?
our
The Hon. Dr. Cuckourn: Yes; it would look as if the Colonies are not occupying as friendly an attitude as people anticipated. South Australia has always been under the impression that the other Colonies would, quite apart from her joining in this cable, consider her position, and We have in the event of the Pacific Cable being constructed, would guarantee her against loss. always been under the impression that the other Colonies would do that unconditionally. If not, and they would only do it as part of a condition, it would make it much more difficult for me to put it before them. Did not Lord Jersey say something in his Ottawa Report? Give me a few moments to look it up. (Pause.) Mr. Playford says if the cable is to be subsidised our position is to be taken into consideration. He was not going to stand in the way.
The Hon. Mr. Cook: That is precisely the proposition we are making now, in other words. Mr. Playford said he would not stand in the way if the peculiar circumstances of his Colony were taken
We say now," Come in with us and we will stand in with you"
into consideration.
The Hun. Mr. Thynne: The making good any loss consequent on the construction of the new cable was what Mr. Playford meant, as I think he was generally understood. If there is any falling ott by reason of the new cable, South Australia should be assisted in some way if she comes in.
The Hon. Dr. Cockburn: As I stated, South Australia is desirous to come in, though it was formerly understood that she would not be expected to contribute; at the same time I desire to have some earnest that her position would be considered, and it would be easier for me to get consent to contribute if a proposition were made in the direction that the Colonies would be willing to make this concession to South Australia. Only I prefer that that proposition should come first and my statement afterwards.
The Hon. Mr. Cook: We say here, we want you in, and nek you to state your terms.
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PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON
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