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PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE

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11 C.O. 885

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PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON

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PACIFIC CABLE COMMITTEE:

The Hon. Mr. Reeves: We submit, of course, that the very trifling increase of distance caused by passing to us in going from Fiji to Brisbane is absolutely no injury to Queensland. We submit that, there being no injury to Queensland, the interests of New Zealand should be conserved on a (After some further remarks.) Well, we much prefer point we take to be of vital importance to us. that route.

The Hon. Mr. Cook: North Cape, in New Zealand?

The Hon. Mr. Reeves: No; the most convenient landing place north of Auckland. Perhaps it will not be the North Cape. It is not desired to leave Queensland out at all. The cable could go from New Zealand to Brisbane by as short a route, but by going to Brisbane direct it simply leaves New Zealand out altogether. Why leave us out, when by taking us in you can be equally well served?

Further desultory conversation ensued, and the Hon. Mr. Thynne said he would like to have certain figures verified, as they differed very considerably from the information given by his papers.

The Hon. Mr. Reeves said one difference might be explained by a misunderstanding that had arisen. People talked about the distance from Fiji to Auckland, but it was not going to Auckland, but to some place north; that would probably mean a difference of some 200 miles.

Mr. P. B. Walker, being called in, explained that the slack had been allowed for in some calculations, and much greater per-centage in some cases than in others. Moreover, he did not take the figures as at all correct on some of the papers. One engineer allowed 20 per cent. for slack; Mr. Walker only allowed 10 per cent., which he thought ample. Only 6 per cent. slack was used on the New Caledonia line. Mr. Fleming's estimate of 20 per cent. was altogether too much; no cable engineer would think of putting so great an excess as that on a cable, unless it was very deep вея. It might be a mistake on the right side, but it was unnecessary, as 10 per cent, was ample; and seldom more than 7 per cent. was used on the Atlantic cables, which were in very deep water. Mr. Walker explained the reason of a deviation in the case of the New Caledonia-Fiji route was to escape a very deep hole to the north-west of New Caledonia, and the probable damage that would be occasioned to the laying machinery in this deep water.

The Hon. Mr. Cook: I think we had better settle to take Norfolk Island as the point of bifurcation.

The Hon. Mr. Reeves: The object in accepting a compromise is generally to have a friendly settlement of a difficulty; would it be a friendly settlement? If the majority of the Conference

I think my

Government want to settle it so, under the circumstances I will not contest the matter. would, when I explained the matter, stand by me in accepting the position.

The Hon. Mr. Thynne: On behalf of Queensland I am very well satisfied with the compromise proposed. I think it is the best route yet suggested, and will probably cost less than the direct line from Fiji to Queensland.

The Hon. Mr. Cook: Very well. Perhaps it would be as well for it to be moved and seconded by two of the other Colonies.

The resolution was read: "That the route from Fiji to Australia be to Norfolk Island, thence "bifurcating to the nearest convenient landing place in the north of New Zealand and Moreton "Buy."

The Hon. Dr. Cockburn thought the proposition a fair one; at the same time he deemed it a mistake to fix these detaile-it would only be hampering the Commissioners. Here they had figures at variance, which the Commissioners would be able to have correct and would know more about, and altogether he thought it would be better to leave the Commission untrammelled, as they would have better data to work upon.

The Hon. Mr. Gavan Duffy moved, and the Hon. J. Cook seconded :—

"That, in the opinion of this Conference, the route from Fiji to Australia be to Norfolk "Island, thence bifurcating to the nearest convenient landing places in the north of New Zealand

Carried unanimously. "and Moreton Bay respectively."

The Hon. Mr. Cook: Now as to the apportionment of cost between the Colonies. There has been an understanding that the Colonies should take equal responsibilities in this matter.

The Hon. Mr. Reeves: Well, personally, so far as my judgment goes, I take that view too, but I am absolutely without any communication from Mr. Ward or from my Government as to their views. The Hon. Mr. Duffy: I should think New Zealand would take a little more than her proportion, as she has no extra expense.

The Hon. Dr. Cockburn: Until we get some idea what the cost is expected to be, it is only making difficulties trying to apportion the shares.

The Hon. Mr. Cook: I do not think so.

The Hou. Mr. Reeves: I am rather inclined to take Dr. Cockburn's view.

The Hon. Dr. Cockburn: It practically precludes three Colonies from coming in; Tasmania could not come in on that haris.

The Hon. Mr. Cook: I do not see myself, I candidly confess, bow Tasmania and Western Australia could ever come in.

The Hon. Dr. Cockburn: South Australia could hardly be expected to be an equal contributor, the advantages she would get would be

The Hon. Mr. Cook: 15d, or 18d. a word reduction on messages. get to London ?

The Hon. Dr. Cockburn: I think it is 4r. 9d.

PAPERS.

The Hon. Dr. Cockburn: Of course, our telegrams would still go the other way-it is shorter. The Hon. Mr. Cook: Would they? And you would pay 4s. 9d. in preference to 3s. 2d. ? The Hon. Mr. Duffy: What do you say, Mr. Reeves, would your Government agree to come in on equal terms with the other three Colonies ?

The Hon. Mr. Reeves: I scarcely feel warranted in speaking in their name on the question to-day. I thought it only right to explain my position. There is no desire on my part to bang hack. I recognise that if this is to be gone into, it must be in a fairly bread spirit. Might I suggest that we meet to-morrow morning, and it be postponed till then. I could cable to Mr. Ward now. I understand that the proposal of the three contributing Colonies is that the four contracting Colonies come in on an equal footing, equal responsibility?

P

The Hon. Mr. Duffy: There is another little subsidiary point as to the local land charges; we must come to some equitable arrangement-it does not affect New Zealand, I suppose

The Hon. Mr. Thynne proposed that there should be fixed the same charge to Brisbane as to Melbourne, say 2d. or 3d a word; let all the Colonies pay alike, pool the amount, and divide it, that is a fair way of doing it.

The Hon. Mr. Cook: Yes, that is fair.

It was

The Hon. Dr. Cockburn: Of course, the position of South Australia is well known and recognised in this matter. At all former Conferences South Australia has abstained from taking part in or voting on the question of the Pacific Cable; on the other hand she has no desire or intention of departing from the traditions that have always guided her, and she will continue to do her utmost in the interests of international telegraphy, and she looks to the friendly feeling of the neighbouring Colonies that her services in the past will not be made the cause of her suffering unduly in the future. Of course, the facts of the construction of the transcontinental line are well known. constructed in 1872 by South Australia at a time when there was no prospect whatever of the revenue meeting expenditure. I suppose but for that step on her part, for the enterprise she then showed, telegraphic communication would have been delayed many years. She constructed the line, worked it at great expense, and for many years at great loss, and she has reason, from the expressions of friendliness which have always been given by delegates at previous conferences, to believe that she will not appeal in vain to the sense of justice and kindly feeling of her neighbours. Should this line be constructed, she expects that she will not be left with an unprofitable line on her hands. Of course, she feels that to put her interests forward in any way to oppose or prevent the extension of telegraphic communication would be unworthy: she has no intention of doing that; on the contrary she would like to assist. Of course, whether she could do so or not would entirely depend on the attitude of her neighbours. She has been given reason to believe that other Colonies would favourably entertain a proposal, in the event of the Pacific Cable being constructed, either to take over the existing transcontinental line as a federal undertaking, or to give her some guarantee that the revenue derived from her present line would not be unduly destroyed by the Pacific line. Either of these results would be satisfactory to South Australia. The question of South Australia contributing has not been discussed hitherto, and we have always been looked upon as exempt, but we would prefer--I believe my colleagues would that we should take portion in this undertaking; but this is a new phase of the question.

The Hon. Mr. Thynne: The way in which we look at the question is this: Assuming that the Pacific Cable is actually accomplished (and will be within the next three or four years), it will be to our interest in Queensland-and the same with New South Wales and Victoria, and, I hope, New Zealand to have an alternative route by the eastern line available for us; and for that reason I think that those Colonies, under the circumstances, would be doing right to make such provision ag What the extent or amount of will keep the way open for connection with the eastern cables. the charge which the other Colonies would be expected to bear is a matter we are not able to discuss at present. I think that the interest we have is sufficient to justify us in coming to an equitable arrangement. Mr. Playford, at the Ottawa Conference, stated the position of South Australia We should like to see South Australia come in practically in the same words as Dr. Cockburn has.

as a contributing Colony with New Zealand and ourselves, even though it may be on a lower basis of contribution than we should pay. Some fair allowance should be made for the advantages derived from the existence of the South Australian overland line. At our first meeting I proposed that the four contracting Colonies should settle all questions of local or conflicting interest between themselves, "We have arranged for this cable, on what terms will and then approach South Australia and eay,

you come in with us?" as a preliminary. It may still be necessary that this be done before we can come to a definite arrangement.

The Hon. Mr. Cook: The guarantee to South Australia is purely a contingent one.

The Hon. Mr. Reeves: I should be prepared, Sir, I think, to go this far: that, recognising the services of South Australia, and how desirable it is that they should come in, the South Australian Government be invited to make, as it were, an offer what they think they ought to get to come in.

The Hon. Mr. Cook: I think that offer is now made in a formal way by Dr. Cockburn. The Hon. Mr. Reeves: He said it had not been properly considered by his Cabinet-it has not been discussed by our Cabinet either.

The Hon. Mr. Cook: It has always been considered that Mr. Ward would be favourable to this

What does it cost you now to

view.

The Hon. Mr. Cook: Is it nothing to get through possibly for 3s. 2d.? You are seeing no advantages at all. I am trying to show that a 34. 2d. instead of a 4s. 9d. rate would be worth while.

The Hon. Dr. Cockburn: The attitude of South Australia was not only discussed at the New Zealand Conference, but it was distinctly understood in Committee, that in the event of the Pacific Cable being constructed, one of two things should be done either the line should be taken over, or a guarantee given to South Australia.

The Hon. Mr. Thynne: Surely your Colony would not be prepared to hand over the line?

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