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PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE
Reference :-
C.O. 885
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ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE COPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH-NOT TO BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC-
PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON
2 December 1896.]
Chairman-continued.
Mr. REEVES.
to that proposal?-1, of course, can only go by what one has heard and what one has read. There is plenty of official and non-official information on the subject. I see that only this month. I think it is yesterday, Senator Chandler, I think of New Hampshire, who is a very prominent member of the McKinley party, has published a statement in which he
American people in simply says that the tend to annex Hawaii. If it were only a political feeling on the part of America that would come into question, perhaps that would not be so very important from our point of view, though it would be important. There is the question of trade rivalry as well.
We have always believed that or later there would be an American cable between Hawaii and San Francisco. That would mean that the Americans would have a distinct trade interest in forcing all our business to go by that route and preventing any cable colonies and Vancouver going between our through Hawaii, and we believe they would.
sooner
2797. Generally, has your Government any opinion as to the advisability or otherwise of an all British route as apart from these special con- siderations ?---Distinctly. There is, of course, the feeling, which may not be a business one, but which has to be taken into consideration: that is the patriotic feeling. We should like to see the Empire knit together by means of a strictly British cable. There is also, I think, a very natural and proper feeling against having the landing-places of an imperial, a very valu- able, important, imperial concern of this kind, controlled by any foreign power. We perfectly understand that if Britain lost the command of the sea, the Pacific, for any considerable time, the mere fact that we held such a landing-place as Fanning Island would not save the cable, but we do not expect that Britain is going to lose the command of the Pacific for any length of time.
2798. On the question whether, if the cable is laid, it should be owned by the associated Governments, or whether the Governments should unite in subsidising a Company, has your Government formed a strong opinion?—I think I may say I have never asked for definite instructions on that point from my Government, because I could not conceive their supporting the subsidising of a company. The whole drift and tendency of feeling in our part of the world thing, especially in would be against such the case of an enterprise of this sort, which is to be Imperial or nothing, from our point of
view.
a
2799. Assuming a cable to be laid, and to be laid at the cost of the associated Governments, how would you provide for the management?— As regards the mere local details of the manage- ment, clerical work, receiving and transmitting of messages, it goes without saying that the different Colonial Governments, British Govern- ments I mean, controlling the different points and stations, that their telegraph offices would manage the work just as they do now. It is a There are postal and mere matter of account. telegraphic accounts exchanged to-day between the different parts of the British Empire and, I
Chairman continued.
[Continued,
believe, though I am not an expert, between the British Empire and foreign nations.
2800. But there would have to be some kind of control? Ah, well, yes; when you come to the general control, that would, I say, be at the head office. The head office, as regards the details, must be here. I take it, in London, and would be Imperial.-the Imperial Postal Department. Then as regards more general ques- tions of control, such as, for example, the political head of a department of Government, would undertake anywhere, I suppose the Colonial Office and the Agents General in London should be perfectly capable of attending to that matter either through a Council, consisting of the Secretary of State and the Agents General of the countries concerned, or through any smaller body that they or their Governments select.
The
2801. On the question of the prospects of Australasian telegraphic business, can you give the Committee any information?-As regards Australasian business, I shall have a general word or two to say in a moment, but I should like, without wearying the Committee, to hand in two or three figures which I have brought with regard to the growth of business in New Zealand. The figures first of all show during the last six years the steady growth of telegraphic business, international and intercolonial. notes there will show how this business has varied owing, of course, to changes in the tariff, but as regards that I would remind you that the Pacific cable would be controlled, not by any single colonial telegraph office, but by an Imperial Council; they would have it in their own hands to settle what the tariff would be, and I
it would be mainly based upon revenue suppose considerations as far as making the thing pay. Here I have a longer Table,* I will not inflict the details upon you, my Lord, but I should like to put it in because it shows the steady, I may say inevitable, growth of telegraphic business in a colony by no means abnormally prosperous This Table shows the growth in telegraphic business in New Zealand between 1880 and the present year. Now, during no time in those 15 years has New Zealand been abnormally prosperous. There has been no boom at any time; on the contrary, in several of those years at any rate, there has been more or less acute depression over. considerable portions of the Colony, and in two years, 1893 and 1894, over pretty well the whole of the Colony, yet you see a steady, and as I say almost, as it were, inevit- able growth of the business. The number of telegrams in the year 1880 was 1,000,000 in round numbers, and it has grown to be 2,124,000 in round numbers in the year 1895, that is con- siderably more than double.
Mr. Jones,
2802. Is that European?—I was going to ex- plain this is the whole telegraphic business of New Zealand. I have put in the external mes- ages here in another return, but this is of impor- as showing the growth of telegraphic business in a Colony not specially prosperous
tance
• See page 245.
2 December 1896.]
Mr. REEVES.
Mr. Jones continued. during these years, and if you take the figures from the following year, 1881, instead of 1880, which is a fairer comparison (1880 I notice seems to have been a very depressed year) in 1881 the number of messages was 1,300,000 in round numbers, and that rose in 14 years, not by leaps and bounds but just steadily, to 2,124,000, while the revenue rose from 58,0007. odd in 1880, and 73,000 in 1881 to 99,000. odd, virtually 100,000, last year. I should like to lay some little stress upon that growth of busi- neas, because I think it shows it is a fair example of how colonial business does grow even when the conditions are rather unfavour- able than favourable, because during that period, 15 or 16 years, there has been an almost steady decline in the prices of our staple products. There has been no gold-mining booin, nor has the population's increase been large. Indeed, during two or three of the years, about nine years ago, for about two years, it did not increase at all. Passing from New Zealand business to Austra- Iasian, the conference in Sydney of course took into consideration the position of
South Australia and of the business that had passed over and was likely to pass over the overland route. The South Australian delegate, Dr. Cockburn, was, of course, considerably evercised in his mind, as was only proper, on the subject. He distinctly gave us to understand that South Australia wished to come into this Pacific cable project and he voted, as the report will show, for it.
The figures were laid before us showing us the expense of the overland route and the sum borrowed by South Australia to make it; the costs and charges, outlay year after year, and the loss which it had inflicted on that colony. Also the figures of the last two years which showed that loss changed into a slight gain, if I remember correctly. The feeling cer- tainly was at the Conference that the other colonies should stand by South Australia and prevent any special loss falling upon them in case the Pacific cable was laid. The question was what that loss would be? My own estimate at the time was that it might change the small profit into a loss of from 8,0007 to 10,000l. a year. Of course then we had not the figures of the year, which, I am told, though I have not seen them, are more favour able. A good deal turned upon the per- manency of the West Australian business because I think Dr. Cockburn told us that it had been the rush of business from Western Australia which had turned the loss on the overland route into a gain, the question of how permanent that would be.
Chairman.
2803. Why does West Australian business, affect the South Australian land line?— 1 only know that he told us it was the growth of Western Australia, if I remember correctly, which
was helping South Australia. There is no doubt that the growth of Western Australia has a very marked effect upon the Eastern
the Company's business, tion of the Eastern lines with Australia, and therefore, it is of importance, I should
connec-
[Continued.
was
very
Chairman -continued. say, to this Conference to be able to gauge the prospects
of business from Western Australia. 1 can only say that in January last I was in New Zealand, I visited New
South Zealand, Queensland, New
Wales, Victoria, and South Australia. much interested, though not as an investor, in West Australia, and I made it my business to gauge what opinions I could upon the prospects of the colony. I think, as far as one can judge from the opinions of Australians, that there will be a very considerable amount of permanence in the West Australian development, and that a steady and enduring amount of business may be expected from that colony, taking as heavy a discount As
you like of the mining boom. Admitting that there may be any amount of "wild cat companies, that there will be reaction and disappointment, it will
be impossible, I think, for the whole thing to be a fraud and a mere passing exciternent without that having got about in the other colonies. There are far too many channels of communica tion amongst men who know and are experienced in mining matters throughout Australasia for West Australian mining to be a fraud without Australians generally knowing it.
2804. I suppose the business of West Australia is not likely under any circumstances to be of any value to a Pacific cable?—I should say dis-. tinctly not.
2805. But it would make a great deal of difference to the Eastern Extension Company? It makes a great deal of difference in any enl- culations as to the loss that is to be inflicted upon the Eastern Telegraph Company. Then as regards the loss to South Australia as to this overland line, as far as I can see, the South Australians must be paying nearly 5 per cent. on the interest on the loans which they raised to construct it with, and I believe, speaking from memory, that the amount of interest that they have to meet on that loan is between 24,0007 and 25,000/ a year. Speaking again from memory, I think that the currency of the loans is such that they mature at dates varying from 1899 to 1913. Now, if the labours of this Con- ference should be so fortunate as to cause the laying down of a Pacific cable towards the end of this century (instead of the next, as people were inclined to think until the last year or two) it is obvious that these South Australian loans would be in a very favourable position for con- version, and if the Imperial Government cared to step in and issue a loan to enable them to be converted the saving on this nearly 25,000l. of interest would be so much that it would dispose of the greater part of this 8,000l. or 9,0001. prob- lematical loss, without, of course, costing the Imperial Government a penny, inasmuch as the colonies would, I suppose, meet the whole of the charges and interest on the new loans.
2806. Have you anything that you would care to say about the prospects of new business with Canada or the United States ?-Not very much, because the trade between Canada and the
colonies is quite a new one. There is trade, however, and there is reason to suppose that it is increasing, and will. I see that within the
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