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371
PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE
Reference :-
TILLC.O. 885
6
ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE COPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH-NOT TO BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC-
PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON
2 December 1896.]
Mr. Gillies-continued.
Mr. PLAYFORD.
2731. Are you not aware that that resolution was come to by all the colonies of Australasia ? -There was a resolution come to at this Con- ference, but there were so many peculiar resolu- I might say tions come to at this Conference. that we have had different conferences on the question of routes, and as my memory serves me, I think the Wellington Conference proposed one; another conference proposed another. The Con- ferences have really agreed upon some three or four routes by resolution.
Chairman.
2732. What is the objection to bringing the cable straight to New Zealand?—I do not know what possible objection there can be to bringing the cable straight to New Zealand, because directly you get to New Zealand you are con- nected with the mainland with a duplicate line of cable, you are then immediately in touch with Australia. If you go to Australia you are immediately in touch with New Zealand, so why should you have a branch running some three or four hundred miles more. There never appeared to me to be any reason for it, except to try to please both parties. Queensland wanted it to land on their shores, and New Zealand wanted it to land on theirs. It appeared to be a desire to please both, but it appears to me to be an un- necessary expense that neither Canada nor Great Britain would be justified in incurring, even if they agreed to the construction of the line.
2733. It is a costly compromise?—It is a costly compromise.
Mr. Jones.
2734. Your suggestion would be from Norfolk Island to New Zealand?-My suggestion would be from Samoa straight to New Zealand or to Moreton Bay.
Chairman.
2735. Do you mean Samoa or Fiji?—I mean Samoa.
Sir Donald Smith.
2736. Samoa is not British territory, is it?— Well, they have agreed by resolution that the cable should land on British territory, and then I think they passed a resolution as to route. they go to Samoa.
Mr. Gillies.
2737. No.-Oh, they do not go to Samos.
Sir Saul Samuel.] That is the route they proposed should be adopted (indicat- ing route on document).
Sir Donald Smith.
2738-9. Samoa is under Britain, Germany, and the United States ?-This little line; I see
[Continued.
Sir Donald Smith - continued. they go straight from Fiji, Norfolk Island, and branch off, and then go back again to New Zea- You can see how they go right back to land.
New Zealand.
2740. It is straight enough from New Zea- land to Fiji -Oh, yes, yes.
Chairman.
2741. Does that conclude your evidence- That concludes anything I desire to say.
Sir Donald Smith,
2742. Is it not the case that there is a large trade in wool between Australia and America by way of England ?--I believe there is a consider- able quantity now since the alteration of the
Since England 2743. By way of alteration of the McKinley Tarif I believe there is.
tariff.
the
2744. Is there not a good deal shipped direct from New Zealand and Australia-Not that I am aware of.
a large agency in New 2745. Is there not York, Sir Roderick Cameron, having a number of vessels trading with Australia ?I believe there is a trade, but I believe it is a bagatelle in comparison with the trade with Europe.
mere
2746. I understood it was a very considerable
Mr. Jones.
2747. I would just like to ask Mr. Playford one question with reference to the statement that the Pacific cable would mean no advantage to this colony on account of being so much farther away. Supposing that an arrangement was arrived at whereby the loss on your land line were satisfactorily adjusted, could you not cable by the Pacific route, if laid, as expeditiously as by the present way?—I am not quite sure about that, possibly you might.
2748. Then you said that you thought the cable was not required, and you put it rather on the ground that the Government should not interfere with private enterprise.
Are you
satisfied to allow the present condition of affairs to remain as they are, looking forward to the future without any prospect of any additional facilities for communicating that way with Australia, America, and England ?—We_are perfectly satisfied that the present lines can do
all the trade.
2749. But, putting it on the ground of non-
that
should you interference ?-Oh, I do not say not interfere, that the Government should not interfere with private enterprise in certain cases. I only say that if they do interfere, in common fairness, they are bound to make good the
loss.
2750. On what ground?—On the ground of fairness; the grounds that they have provided a communication; take the case of South Australia and the Eastern Extension Company. South Australia provided a certain means of communi-
2 December 1896.]
Mr. PLAYFORD,
Mr. Jones continued. cation for the rest of the world with the whole of Australia at her own expense, without any subsidy, and surely having done so, and having worked that now for some 25 years, it would be rather hard if the Governments stepped in and competed with her and took away her trafic an! injured her.
2751. They did not go into that enterprise, you will adnit, from patriotic motives; they went in to make money out of it?-They did not go in to make money at all, because there is the proof-we have lost-we did not attempt to gain.
2752. Not on the Eastern Extension? - The Eastern Extension Company, like anybody else, went in for their own benefit, their own advan- tage.
2753. Well, they must take their chance of all the changes that may take place in develop ing any system with which they are connected? -No doubt they must take the chances of fair private competition.
2754. But any competition?—No, not Govern- ment competition. I do not think they should take the chances of any such competition.
Mr. Gillies.
2755 Is this a personal opinion of yours, Mr. Playford ?—Yes.
2756. I did not real any expressions of opinion at any of the conferences on that subject in that direction, at any of the Australian conferences ? -Oh, no, I am giving my own private opinion; but I believe it is shared by my Government.
Mr. Jones,
2757. The fact is, you think the present existing arrangements should not be interfered with by the Government, even though it would promote facilities for communication between Australia and the mother country at a very much reduced rate? -Not if you are going into competition with those who provided facilities before the Government entered the field, so long as those people provide the facilities, provide adequate facilities, which I contend they have
done.
2758. But they will not provide those facilities at as cheap a rate as is proposed by the cable. You are aware of the large sums of money which they have been accumulating year after year, the large amount of the rates on the cables which they have laid, and are you willing, as an individual, that that thing should be perpetuated, and that they should have the absolute control of the traffic that way, and that no enterprise assisted by the Governments of the colonies and Great Britain should come in whereby the colonies and Great Britain were going to get the advan- tage of cheaper communication ?--I do not think it is fair. think all Governments have acted the principle, I kuow my own Govern- ment has, whenever asked to construct a railway given point in our colony, where there is a private line already running, chosen to buy the line in preference to competing with: private
on
to a
Continued.
Mr. Jones-continued. enterprise, although, whenever they took it over, the line was worked cheaper than before, and it was a benefit to the people. I think in the case of Melbourne they allowed, in the first m stance, telephonic communication to be pro- vided by a private company. The Govern- ment did not enter into competition with that private company; certainly they did not go into competition with the company, but they bought
them out.
2759 But is not your opinion somewhat on the line that was suggested at the time railways were introduced, that Government should com- pensate the stage coaches for taking away the mails from them, the former means of traffic ?—I do not think so I do not think the cases are parallel.
Sir Donald Smith.
2760. You would look upon it as an unfair interference with what may be called vested rights of the Eastern Extension Company?—I would look upon it as an unfair interference with private enterprise.
2761. Vested rights-Not vested rights. 2762. And that they ought to be compensated if the Government assists in the laying of a new cable which will come into competition with their lines? They ought to be guarded against unfair loss. I do not say you ought to take over all their cables, but I think probably the best way out of the difficulty would be to take over their cable from Singapore and work it. At the time they entered into an arrangement with the Australian Governments with regard to laying their second line of cable, if my memory serves me right, they laid down the basis on which they would be prepared to sell to the Governments of the Australian colonies their rights over that cable, so that the Government might have possession of these cables if they liked.
aware that
the
Mr. Gillies. 2763. I suppose you are Government did not entertain that proposal ; they agreed to give a subsidy of 32,000l. a year for 20 years?
Mr. Jones.
2764. Is not your view that the Govern- ment would be interfering with existing rights somewhat inconsistent with the other view that you expressed, that the cable should be owned by the Government?—Not at all, because my state- ment is this, that if it is made, I say let it be owned by the Government in preference to sub- sidizing a company; but if it is made, compen- sate those that would be injured.
2765. You go for compensation always?—Oh, not necessarily always, where it is fair.
Sir Donald Smith. 2766. You are
aware that the shareholders
of the Eastern companies have so far received very good dividends? Yes, I am aware, very good dividends.
2767. And do you not consider that the
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174