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303
PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE
Reference :-
TPILLC.O. 885
6
ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC- COPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH-NOT TO
PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON
16 November 1896.]
Chairman-continued.
Mr. M. H. GRAY.
the material, the soundings, such as they were, and such as they are. The cost; as in an ordinary contracting business, we had to make out the cost of such a work, and we thought we had sufficient information; we were satisfied we had.
400. Can you divide that tender so as to show the Committee how much of it was for making and laying, how much for stations and equip- ment, and how much for repairs and mainten- I would need ance ?—I could not do that now. to go into the figures, but I have an approximate idea from recollection.
401, Then, approximately, can you state how much of that 1,517,000l. was for making and laying?-About 1,300,0007. in rough figures.
402. Would that include the completion of the survey? It would include sufficient survey to satisfy us in any detail that was necessary.
..
403. And how much would be the share of stations and equipment ?—That I could not say without looking back upon the papers. I an afraid I have even given a wrong figure just now, Allow me to withdraw that figure I gave just now -1,300,000. I could not give them roughly even. 404. Then will you be able to send us them? —I shall ask the company to write on the sub- ject.
405. Yes, exactly. I want to know the ap- portionment of that 1,517,000!. between making and laying, including completion of survey, stations and equipment, repairs and maintenance, that condition of re- A8 for three years. regards
would
you pairs and maintenance for three years, consider that a sufficient test of the cable?—I do not quite understand.
406. I presume the object of putting in that was to ensure that the cable contractor should put in such a cable as would at the end of three years have been repaired wherever necessary, and therefore stand for many years to come?— Yes.
407. Is three years enough test of the cable to find out the weak points?-Oh, I think dia- tinctly yes.
408. And the wear and tear of a cable is not much greater after three years than in the first The three years? Not much greater, no.
is only 30 days" usual thing in contracts guarantee.
409. Thirty days?—Yes. 410. Then I would summarise this part of your evidence by saying that your offer for Form A. Route I., was a firm offer, which in- cluded the erection of, at each cable landing- place, a suitable dwelling-place and operating room for the working staff, duplicate sets of all proper instruments at each station; also the use of two steamships fitted with cable tank and all necessary machinery for repairing the cable, and the cost of maintaining these ships as well as the cables themselves for three years; and also that all types of cable proposed to be laid by your firm were to be provided with proper protec- tion; that, in fact, all cables laid in less than to have the core sheathed 100 fathoms are with metallic taping as a protection against the In that ten- teredo. That is so 7-That is so. der we omitted to mention the protection under 100 fathoms of the brass tape, but in a supple-
Chairman-continued.
[Continued.
mentary letter we said that that should be in- cluded in our original offer.
411. You further offered to make and lay, on the same conditions, the 15-word per minute cable for 1,672,000Z. ?—Yes.
412. Or an 18-word per minute cable for 1,882,000l. ?—Yes,
413. And those were equally firm offers? They were equally firm offers.
414. Now I should like to compare that tender of your firm with the estimate that the General Post Office furnished to the ('olonial Their estimate was that the cost would Office. be 2,924,000l., and that did not include mainten-
auce for three years. How can you explain such a great diversity between your tender and the estimate of the technical advisers of the General Post Office?-For one thing the core in that estimate is very much heavier than we estimate for. Of course, there I see they have added 20 per cent. slack in the Post Office De- partment; 20 per cent. slack to the total length, which means a very much heavier core; but even in that case the core is much heavier than we ourselves would have put in : very much.
were
415. And have you any evidence to offer the Committee in support of the view of your firm that the core for which you tender is adequatc and that the core of the advisers to the General Post Office was unnecessarily strong?-Our core is founded on the length, with 10 per cent. slack after it is laid, so that it was necessarily smaller
We than that of the Post Office. satisfied with our own figures, but in view of the great difference, we took the opinion of Lord Kelvin and Mr. Herbert Taylor, who
per- haps are the greatest authorities on long cables.
416. And what did Lord Kelvin say -There was a slight difference, but he practically con. There is a firmed our views to a great extent.
You cannot get an difference in all of them. exact figure, but the figures vary in each case, Mr. Taylor's and Lord Kelviu's slightly, and our
own.
417. There was a letter from your firm to Sir Charles Tupper of the 24th December 1895 on that subject?--Yes.
418. Will you kindly read that out so as to get it on the minutes?
106, Cannon-street, London,
24th December 1895.
"Dear Sir, "Since submitting our tender to the Canadian Government for laying cables over various routes to unite Canada and Australia, we find that the core of the cable which we proposed for use, to transmit 12 words per minute over that section of cable which is intended to join Vancouver with Fanning Island (a length of 3,560 nautical miles of cable, including 10 cent. of slack when laid), is slightly (about 34 per cent.) less in weight than what Lord Kelvin estimates to be necessary.
per
"In a report which Lord Kelvin has furnished us with we find that he recommends for the section mentioned above a core of 552 lbs. of copper and 368 lbs. of gutta percha per nautical mile, to give 12 words per minute over a length of 3,560 nautical miles.
16 November 1896.]
Chairman-continued.
I am,
Mr. M. H. GRAY,
"I write to inform you that we are prepared to substitute this core (552/368) for that which was proposed in our tender, without suggesting any increase in the prices quoted in our tender.
Yours faithfully, (signed) "Matthew Gray,
Managing Director. The Hon. Sir Charles Tupper, Bart., G,C,M.G., &c., &c., Ottawa, C'anada,”
**
419. Now I should like to take you to the
you estimate your firm sent in for Form C.; that is, the cable to be owned, maintained, and worked by a company under a Government guarantee. You asked for a guarantee of gross revenue of 226,000 per annum?-1 cannot say anything about that I did not see any of those figures; they were done in the head office; Mr. Robert K. Gray, my brother, attended to that; I have not seen any of them.
420. I understand that you are not prepared to give evidence as to the estimate of your firm under Form C.?- No; I do not know anything
about it.
421. But that your brother, who is managing director, would be able to do eo ?-Yes, he is assistant manager.
Mr. Murray.
422. You said that you were satisfied with the existing survey, that it was sufficient for the purpose of estimating the cost of your cable?— Yes.
423. But in order to estimate the cost of your cable you would need to know the length of it?
-Yes.
424. And the length of it depends not only on the actual over-sea distance, but on the con- figuration of the bottom, I suppose?-Possibly. Having to avoid any great difficulties that may arise on the bottom might cause the cable to deviate slightly; but as to the variations in depth, they would be allowed for in the slack, unless there were some great and unforeseen shoal or gulley.
425. And you think that under ordinary cir- cumstances an allowance of 10 per cent, for slack would be enough?-Ten per cent, after the cable is laid; 15 per cent, in the ship to make sure, to make repairs, if necessary for safety.
426. As matter of fact, what does the existing survey amount to on that line, from Vancouver to Fanning? I have made a rough comparison here as to the soundings with other lines. For example, I have counted all the soundings in a belt which would include these various routes. the eight various routes, and I find that of soundings of over 500 fathoms there are 451 of
them taken.
Mr. Gillies.
427. Four hundred and fifty-one over 500 fathoms depth?-Over 500 fathoms depth. And the total over-ground length of the route is roughly this, 6,845 miles, and for comparison I have taken that there are 15 miles between each sounding. Of course, the soundings are close
[Continued.
I
Mr. Gillies-continued. together in places, but for the purpose of com parison I have taken that figure The cable which was laid between Lisbon to Pernambuco riá Madeira and St. Vincent: there was one cable laid in 1874, and anether in 1884, to duplicate the cable. The number of soundings over 500 fathoms was something like 90, about 90, perhaps one more or less, but 90 1 should give as the figure. The distance along the route there is 3,262 nautical miles or so, a distance of 36.6 miles between each sounding, just about double the actual distance that one gets in the Pacific. The cable most recently made was in 1884. have also taken the chart for the North Atlantic cables, and have taken the chart printed in 1882 by the Admiralty, and counted the sound- ings on those in a band which includes the eight Atlantic cables which were then laid. I find that the distance along this route is 2,850 miles,. approximately, or say 11-5 miles between each Bounding as against the 15 miles between each sounding in the Pacific. Of course, the sound- ings are better divided out in the North Atlantic, and also in the Lisbon-Madeira where there is a single line sounding; they were more regular than those in the Pacific. Still, those figures remain.
Mr. Murray,
428. Then I understand that practically you have got one sounding for every 15 miles of length-It averages that, but there are places where there are no soundinge; there are other places where there are many close together.
429. What is the maximum distance between any two soundings ?—I could not say; I could I have a chart tell you by measuring a chart. which shows it, but I have not that figure in my head.
430. You cannot infer very much as to the configuration of the Pacific from what you know of the configuration of the Atlantic, can you?—— No, not very much; but there are soundings, although not in an immediate line. The American survey which was made in 1892 for the American cable to Honolulu, by order of the Government, I think there are some 500 soundings there, and they show a very regular bottom. The report in the blue book to the American Government is that the bottom is very satisfactory; that is in the northern route, which is the last survey in the whole of the Pacific.
431. That was from San Francisco to Ho- nolulu ?—Yes; still, it gives a good guide. (Illustrating by chart). These three lines were taken in 1892 by the American Hydrographers' Department, and you can see that they are very regular. There is only one slight irregularity about here, 413 fathoms; but it ran very re- gularly here, and it ran out here, and gives you a guide as to what may be expected there, and the remainder of the route is shown here. Some of these only are included in the number of soundings I have taken; I have not included all the American soundings, but very few of them in the estimate I have given you.
432. You have got two very long gaps here? -Yes.
453. And one there 7-Yes; it is pretty near
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