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52
6 January, 1920.]
COLONIAL MEDICAL SERVICES COMMITTEE.
Dr. B. H. R. LUCY.
1785. Looking at it impartially, do you think it would be to the advantage of the service to oblige a man, half way through his time, to go through a course and get a certificate? Yes, I agree with that, and I think men would be only too glad to do so.
1786. They would be glad to do it and also it would bo for the good of the Service?-I do not know that it would be necessary to insist on a man having certificate.
1767. That would be very much to the advantage of the Service?-Yos, it would.
1768. But is there much tendency, do you think, for a man to get rusty; he gets rusty in some branches, of course he must? Yes, I do not think they get very rusty; they have not the chance of keeping up to date at an out station.
1769. You are satisfied with the qualifications of the men who came out?—Yes
1770. Some time ago, it was put in evidence that there was a kind of feeling against men sent to the Colonies or Dominions; from your own general ex- perience, is there any prejudice against men who go to the West Coast? No, I do not think so.
1771. Mr. Fiddian: You mentioned the difficulty of one Principal Medical Officer supervising the whole of the medical arrangements of the Malay Peninsula P→→ He would have to have two deputies.
1772. He would have to have two deputies?-One for the Straits and one for the Federated Malay States.
1773. Is there any real convenience in having two deputies instead of having one Principal Medical Officer for the South of the Peninsula, and one for the North. You are suggesting that because of the present political arrangements, I take it, in the Malay Peninsula? No.
one
1774. Is it more convenient for one doputy to work Singapore, Penang and Malacca than for Principal Medical Officer to work Singapore, Johore and the southern part of the Malay states? -I think, if the Unfederated States were brought in, it would have to be rearranged I was thinking as they are at present. If the present Services were amalgamated the Principal Medical Officer would be in Singapore, and there would be a deputy in Kuala Lumpur.
1775. The deputy being in Kuala Lumpur, the difi- culty which might arise in other cases would not arise; it would be the same person although the two Governments are distinct? No; the Governor is High Commissioner of the States.
1776. The Government of the Malay States in die tinct from the Government of the Straits Settlements? -Yes.
1777. What would your Principal Medical Officer do-advice? Yes.
1778. Would he travel? Yes.
1779. In it possible to travel about the place?--If he has time, it is extremely easy to travel about, by rail or motor.
1780. Do you see any advantage in the ides of having a Medical Board at home to advise on medical questions in the Straits Settlements or the Malay States? I should like to have a Selection Board at home.
1781. You mean for first appointments?—Yes.
1782. There has been one for the last ten years, Do you think the arrangements want improving in that respect?-We have not had any men for a long time, but I should like the selection to continue
1789. Chairman: You would like the Selection Board to select?-Yes.
1784. Mr. Fiddian: Apart from that, you do not know of any difficulties having arisen locally, in which it would have been useful to have had a Board of Medical Advisers at home to whom reference could have been made?—No, I have not met any.
1785. You do not see any advantage in having a sort of General-Director or Inspector of Colonial
[Continued.
Medical Services, at the Colonial Office to advise the Secretary of State on such questiona?--I do not see any objection.
1788. You do not see any objection, but you are not aware of any particular advantage?—No, I think that the conditions are so very different.
1787. Do you think many doctors learn any native languages P-Yes, in the Federated Malay States they do; only Malay.
1788. You do not require them to learn Chinese or Tamil? No.
1789. Just colloquial Malay, I suppose?-Yes. 1790. And just enough of it?—Yes,
1791. You have had rather serious difficulties, from time to time, over this question of private practice? -Yes; they are never ending.
1792. Would you give us some idea of what sort of difficulties they are ?--The main difficulty, in my mind, in finished now; it arose in connection with brothel practice; that was one very serious difficulty. There is a difficulty now; at the present moment, in Singapore, the Senior Surgeon is allowed to charge fees for the surgery which he does in the Singapore Hospital. They have made an arrangement with this man, who is a very excellent surgeon indeed, and I have not taken any steps to get the arrange- ment altered, because I do not want to lose the man; but it leads to all sorts of troubles. People go into the hospital and are operated upon; the Government charge fees, and then an additional fee is chargod by the surgeon, which always leads to friction.
1793. On the other hand, it would be rather diffi- cult to debar the public from having recourse to the services of a first-class surgeon ?—I would not allow it under any circumstances.
1794. There is no reason why they should have his services cheap by going into the hospital? There is not, and there is that very great difficulty which I do not see my way out of.
1796. It really comes to this, that you do not see your way to disturb an existing arrangement ?—No, I do not. I must say, I should not like to disturb it at present.
1796. You said it was not satisfactory to have medical officers who were not of purely European descent; that is that there is an objection on the part of the patients? Yes.
1797. Do you know any objection? No, I do not.
other administrative
1798. You would not say coloured men were more unreliable than Europeans?-Yes, I should. 1799. That is an objection rather P-Yen. 1800. Are there many coloured men noW the Surgeons! Not many. We get a good many Indians, but they are educated in the Straits.
among
1801. You get men coming from India to be edu- cated in Singapore?-They are generally people whose father or mother live in Singapore.
1802. The Assistant Surgeons are Chinese and Indians?-Chinese and Indians.
1803. You said an ordinary Medical Officer ought to go to 800 dollars a month, and that the higher pay of the higher poata would be increased in proportion. How would the higher posta compare, say, with senior administrative posts or Public Works? They would also have to have their increased.
1804. If you put up the Medical Officer, you would have to put up the others?—Yes.
1805. That would come to a good deal in the long run? I think it is coming.
1806. Your Medical Officers have some sanitary duties? No, the Medical Officers do not have; they are advisers to the various Sanitary Boards.
1807. The Sanitary Board is a lay board? Yes. 1808. Does the system work well P-Yes, I think it does, very well.
1809. But your medical men who advise the Sani- tary Board may have no sanitary qualification at all P.-Yes.
1810. Just as much sanitary knowledge as he has picked up? Yes, quite.
5 January, 1920.]
MINUTES OF EVIDENCE.
DR. 8. H. R. LUCY.
1811. You think, in spite of that, it works fairly well? Yes, I think it does.
1819. You have diseases in the Malay Peninsula occasionally besides tropical diseases, I suppose?— Yes.
1818. You are not contemplating any arrangement by which men should specially study, except in tropical medicine, I gather?-You.
1814. You do not think it is worth while to on- courage them to go in for the study of other diseases? Some men ask to take up courses in other branches. 1818. Does the Government pay the fees then? I think so, if it is recommended.
1816. You said it was a pity that prospects of promotion to appointments in other Colonies were not held out to people entering the Service; do you not think it rather dangerous to hold out such a prospect I think not.
1817. A man might reckon on it as a probability, and it is only a chance?-At present. 1818. Yes-A very remote chance.
in
1819. Of course, it would be reciprocal?-Quite. 1820. A man in Jamaica might get an appointment the Straits Settlements --Exactly. We have auffered the other way; at present, we have not sent men away, they have come to us.
1821. In appreciable numbers P-A good many. 1822. As a matter of fact, your pay already goo to a very fair figure; the pay in the Straita or the Federated Malay States is a very fair figure?--In sterling.
1823. In sterling? It goes up to £1200. 1824. Are there many as well paid posts in the Colonial Medical Services elsewhere?-No, very few.
1825. That is another reason for not setting free the promotion ?-Exactly.
1846. Have you got a Dentist in the Malay Penin- Hula? No,
1827. There are plenty of private dentista, I sup- pose? There are two in Kuala Lumpur, and two or three in Singapore; there are not many others.
1828. It is easy enough for one who has the money to get one's teeth seen to in Kuala Lumpur or Bings- pore?--Oh, yes.
1829. Dr. Hood: In regard to the age when men should go on pension, I gather you say that. 55 is too old?-Yee, I think it is.
1830. At what age do you think, then, men ought tu go; you would allow them to retire?-Most men who have been out in the East 20 years, at 50 years if age are ready for retirement.
1831. You think after 20 years' service, irrespective of age, that the men ought to be allowed to retire, cr to claim to retire? Yes, I think ao; 20 to 25
years
1892. If a man entered the Service at 24 he has to do 27 years?-Twenty-six years to 50.
1883. Fifty-five, you say, is the age?-Fifty-five is the age at present; 31 years' service.
1834. He has to do 31 years before he can retire?— Yes.
1835. You would reduce that to 20?-Twenty-five, I think that is what it would come to; a man of 50, if he has been out there 25 years should be allowed to retire.
1836. If he went out at 24, he would be able to retire at 44, if 20 years were the figure? Yes, but I think 50 should be the age.
1837. Have you had experience of other Tropical countries besides the Federated Malay States?—No.
1858. In West Africs it is after 18 years that a Inan is eligible to retire?-Yes.
1839. Do you think a tour of four years is rather excessive P-No.
1840. You think a man is quite able to do the four years? Yes, I think so.
I think after 50 a man goes to pieces very quickly if he returns.
1841. They do not get tired of it after two years? - No.
1842. Chairman: Do they get any local leave? It is provided for in the Regulations.
1849. During the four years what local leave are they entitled to; can they run over to India, or up to Japana? Oh, yes, if you can make arrangements. It is always very difficult to get away, but there is provision for it under the Regulations..
[Continued.
53
1844. Without being actually ill, they can get leave like that, in addition to the full pay leave home? You can as a rule, yes,
1845. How much in a year; how long could a man be away after two years' service?-I think it is three weeks, accumulated to six.
1848. Three weeks a year?-Yes, but the Regula- tions have varied so frequently I really forget exactly what the condition is at the present moment.
1847 Sir James Fowler: Would you not think that u man requires a holiday every year out there?—I do. 1848. But he has to serve two years without a holiday? A fortnight, I think, is provided every year. You can take a fortnight every year, and I think recently you have been allowed to accumulate it up to six weeks, during the War, but I think ordin- arily you had to take the fortnight in the year; you could not accumulate it. If you take leave it counts
against your home leavo; that is, if you take it on full pay.
1819. Chairman: This fortnight?-No, no; a man
could get away on urgent private affairs for two months, only that would count against his home leave.
1850. Sir James Fowler: Is there a Nursing Home at Singapore? Yes, there is a small Nursing Home. 1851. Would not the development of the Nursing Home obviate the difficulty you mentioned, of a Government Burgeon charging fees for operating in a Government hospital? Yes, it would.
1852. Surely that is the line to take up, to develop it? But nobody will take it up; it is a private affair. 1853. It would pay?-I think it would pay very well.
1854. Chairman: The Nursing Home is supported by voluntary subscriptions, is it not?-No, I think it pays its own way.
1855. It used to bo?-It is a very amall private affair.
1858. Sir James Fowler: Who does the midwifery amongst the European women in Singapore?-Tho varions private practitioners. There are two Govern- rnent Maternity Hospitals, a native and a European. 1857. Are there paying wards in any of the Hospi- tals there? Oh, yes, in Singapore, in the General Flospital there are paying warde, in Penang and also in Malacca and the same in Kuala Lumpur; there are paying wards in the European Hospital.
1858. Sir Humphry Rolleston: A paying ward in the Hospital is really much the same as a nursing home? Yes.
1859. The same man would operate in both cases, would he not-The Government surgeon operates in the Government Hospital.
1860. Would they not allow him in the Nursing Home? The Government would not permit the present man; there would be so much work to do that he could not do both.
1861. Sir James Fowler: Would you be in favour of having such an appointment as a Staff Surgeon, & surgeon on the Staff, who would devote his whole time and life in the Colony to surgical work?-We have such a man.
1869. You have? He is Senior Surgeon, and does nothing else but surgery.
1863. He never does anything else?-No.
1884. Will he not get into administrative work at any time ?-No.
1865. Then you have the system we have in mind? -Yes, we have what is called the appointment of Senior Surgeon at Singapore. We have also the appointment of Senior Surgeon at Penang, but that has not been filled by a surgeon, and the duties are carried out by one or other of the ordinary Govern- ment surgeons; the man who is the best surgeon, for the time being, is sent to do that work.
1806. Have those appointments ever been filled by a man specialy sent out from England, with special surgical qualifications?-No, I think not.
1867. It has always been a matter of promoting the ablest surgeon on the Staff?-Hitherto, yes. It has only been in vogue for a few years.
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