CO885-(26N14) — Page 174

51

146

PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE

co

Reference :--

885/26

PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON

ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC-

COPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH-NOT TO

50

6 January 1920.]

COLONIAL MEDICAL SERVICES COMMITTEE.

DR. 5. H. R. LUCI.

1661. Are there many altogether?-Oh, yes, a very large number.

1089. Are they as a class contented?-No.

1663. What could we do to make them contented? Give them more pay.

1864, That would be sufficient? Oh, you, I think that is their only cause of complaint.

1685. There is no agitation to be amalgamated with any higher offices? I have heard of none; I think it may arise at any moment, but it has not happened up to the present.

1666. It is less likely to arise if they are made con- tented otherwise?-Certainly.

1667. Have you any other suggestions to make regarding the administration of Colonial Medical Services, not only your own, but any other?—I think the Federated Malay States and the Unfederated Malay States should be amalgamated; it would im- prove the status of the Department. The Governor would have one adviser instead of two. He is also High Commissioner of the Federated Malay States.

1668. Medical Officers now are recruited at about the age of 25, are they not?-I think the average in the Federated Malay States for the past ten years has been about 28.

1868. Do you think it would be an improvement to recruit them earlier?-Yes, I do.

1670. What age would you suggest

or 24 even.

Twenty-five

1671. Not as soon as they have got their degree in England?-No; they do an appointment at a hospital, I think, and a course of Tropical Medicine and Hygiene. I think it would also improve the Service if the higher appointments in the whole of the Colonial Service were amalgamated, so that a man could look forward to a position; although in his own Colony there was not very much for him, he might have a chance of getting an appointment else- where in the higher grades.

1872. In the whole of the Crown Colonies?--Yes. 1673. The whole of the Colonies under the adminis- tration of the Colonial Office?-Yes; I do not think you could amalgamate the junior grades, for the reason of the language.

1674. There already exists a kind of unwritten system of that kind; is it not the case that men are ofton transferred P-It is very one-sided.

1675. The Principal Medical Officer, for instance, is very often taken from another Colony? In the Straits?

1676. Everywhero-Ceylon

and Jamaica? True,

but there is no prospect held out to a man that he may get such a position, and the chances, I think, are very small.

1677. You think it would be better to have it an understood thing?-I think so.

1678. Sir James Fouler: About how many Medical Officers, not of the lower grade, are there in the Straits Settlements and the Federated Malay States; have you any idea? There were 32 in the Straits when I came home.

1679. Chairman: Higher appointments?—I mean British qualified men, not higher appointments, the whole service-European officers. I think there are rather more in the Federated Malay States.

1680. Sir James Fowler: Perhaps 70 altogether?-- Yes, quite that; far more if appointments recom mended in the last eight months have been sanctioned. Well, many of them have been sanctioned, but not filled.

1881. New appointments sanctioned?-New ap- pointments sanctioned.

1882. But not filled?-But not filled.

1683. The men who are sent out are first appointed nhouse surgeons, are they not?-Not in every case; they are on paper, but in practice they are not, because there are only three house surgeons, one at Penang, and two at Singapore, and very often four or five men come out and the others are drafted to out-stations, either in the Unfederated Malay States or in the Federated Malay States. They do not all go through the house surgeon appointment.

1684. What is the number of beds in the hospital to which they are house surgeon?-The number of European beds, first-class beda?

1685. Chairman: Give them separately?—in the

[Continued.

first-class wards there are about 48 beds; in the second-class wards, also European, about 40; in the third-class wards there are about 100, and then 10 the native wards there are about 800.

1886. Sir James Fouler: Would they have the opportunity there of distinctly enlarging their experi ence in Medicine and Surgery? Oh, yes, there is a great deal of work there.

1887. Of whom does the senior staff consist, the physicians and surgeons? They are all Government nien; there is the Senior Medical Officer of the Hos- pital, and there is the Senior Surgeon in Singapore.

1688. Are the Hospitals well equipped?—No. 1689. Are they up-to-date on the surgical side? Well, so far as the present surgeons are concerned, they are, certainly. The buildings are very old, and they are not at all sanitary; in fact, the Hospital in Singapore has practically been condemned. The Penang Hospital is rather better.

1690. As compared with European hospital build- ings they are much behind, are they not?-Oh, yes, certainly.

1691. "About how many civil practitioners are there in Singapore?-I think there are about 20.

1692. Some of them, at any rate, are able men, I suppose?-Oh, yes.

1693. Can you think of any additional facilities for research that could be given? How far off is Kuala Lumpur-About 200 miles; it is a train journey; you leave at 8 o'clock in the evening and you are at Kuala Lumpur next morning.

1694. Does that act as a research centre? There is not any. I mean, apart from the Staff there are none officially appointed for research work from Europe.

1695. Is there not any research in Medicine and the allied sciences done there? There are no officers appointed for research work. The Head of the Laboratory in Kuala Lumpur does a certain amount of reseach work, but there is no Research Department as a separate entity.

1696. Are there good clinical laboratories attachedd to the hospitals of which we were speaking just now? --No.

1697. Men come out on probation for a certain period, do they not?-Yes, they are appointed on three years' probation.

1698 Supposing steps were taken to see that they were thoroughly qualified in Medicine and Surgery and so on before they come out, do you think that probationary period is necessary? They are not called probationers; they come out on an agreement, which is merely a passage agreement, namely, that if they retire or throw up their appointment, or are retired within three years, they refund their passage

money.

1699. They are not really on probation?—No, they are not really on probation; they are not called probationers; they come out on an agreement; every- body in the Service does, I think.

1700. That is a contract?--Yes, that is à contract. 1701. Chairman: They are always kept on, unless they are very unsatisfactory?—Yes; it is merely a passage agreement.

1703. Sir James Fowler: You spoke of the men in the towns doing consulting work; how would you define consulting work?—I would define it in the case where one of those private practitioners calls in one of the Government officers to see a patient at the patient's house.

1703. But is the consultant open to be visited directly by patients?—No, I think not.

1704. You would not call that consulting work?— No. I should not,

1705. It is hore?--In London, yes, quite.

1706. How are the native officers recruited; how are they appointed?—By the Governor. We get most of our men from the focal School; we advertise in the papers, and we get men from the Hong Kong University when we require them.

1707. So far as you have observed. is the Medical Course at Hong Kong efficient?--I beliove so.

1708. They appear to be well qualified?—Yes. 1709. Are there any health stations to which a man might go in temporary bad health-Not one; not local hill stations.

5 January, 1923.]

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE.

Da. S. H. R. LUCY.

1710. Are any sent to sau, as they used to be in the old times on the West Coast? Yes, we send men frequently to Hong Kong.

1711. That is your method P-Well, we make use of the Indian stations to a great extent, and the stations in Java and Ceylon. Bangalore the men go to in India, and Nuwara Eliya in Ceylon.

1712. Chairman: Do you not have Penang Hill P-It is not much of a hill station; the climate up there is rather poor.

1719. Or the Jarpuy Hills?-They are all right as ronvalescent homes. Directly a man is less than half dead he wants to come down again. They are small, isolated bungalows; there is not much to do up there; you cannot get about in the place at all; it is not a very big station.

1714. There is no road up?--No. We have a there which we could make a hill station.

place 1715. You have a place?-Oh, yes, we have indeed. 1716. Where? In the Central Península, in Pahang.

1717. What would its name be?-Gunong Tahan. 1718. Do you think a health station could be made there? Yes, a magnificent station.

1719. At great expense, or not? Yes, at great

expense.

1720. The Medical Officers of Johore, for example, how are they appointed?-I understand since I have been home that they are appointed now by the Governor, but hitherto they have been appointed by the Johore Government. Johore is one of the States that is only partially administered, but I understood unofficially that in future the

men would be appointed from the Straits to Johore; in fact, the Principal Medical Officer there has just been appointed from the Federated Malay States.

1791. Sir James Fowler: I gather that you think there is no difficulty in amalgamating these Services, and that it would be a great advantage to do so?-- Yes, I see no dificulty whatever.

1722 You know Kuala Lumpur well? Yes, I lived there for many years.

1723. What is the chief activity of the Research Station there; economic?-No.

1724. Not at all?—No; it is purely medical.

1725. Is it possible that the addition of an Economic Research Department would be an improvement?-- They have one attached to the Agricultural Depart ment; they have their chemists and entomologists; that is also at Kuala Lumpur.

1726. Chairman: Do you think it would be a good thing to amalgamate these two Research Stations? -I think it would be very good.

1727. It would lead to economy and efficiency?_I should think it would. At present they are two or three miles apart. The Agricultural one is in the Lake Club Gardens, and the other one is two miles out on the Batu road.

1728. Sir Harry Verney: If I might just clear it up for my own sake. Do I understand there are no coloured gentlemen in what you call the higher grade?

There are some Eurasians in the higher grade. 1729. Who appointed them?-They were appointed years ago by the Secretary of State.

1730. At home? Yes.

1781 Have any been appointed within the last twenty years? Yes.

1732. Are any being appointed now, or just before the War I cannot think of any just recently.

1739. Are they being appointed atill? There is nothing laid down against it.

1794. But you would be against it? Yes, I do not think it is at all desirable.

1735. Upon the test question of the coloured gentle. men, would it be possible to amalgamate with the Straits Medical Service the Ceylon Medical Service? They are all Burghers in Ceylon, I think, except two or three of them-Ceylon Burghers.

1736. Some Tamils and some Cingalese?—Yes, there are a few in the higher appointments.

1737. The senior appointments in Ceylon and the Straits might be interchangeable?-Oh, quite.

1798. Any white appointments? Yes.

26248

{Continued.

1739. You mentioned Kelantan, Is that in the same position as Johore?-Yes, that is on the North- East.

1740. Are there white medical officers there? The Government have not one. A big Corporation there have a medical officer, or one or two.

1741. You say the Government would appoint. They would be coloured men if the Government of the Straits appointed a medical officer?-Oh, no, they would appoint a European.

1742. Chairman: You mean there are no Govern- noat medical officers in Kelantan-No, there are

rone.

1748. Are there going to be?—I should think so; there they have an assistant surgeon, who was traus ferred; I should think he is qualified.

1744. Sir Harry Verney: All these States could be joined up with the Straits Medical Service? Yes.

1745. You were appointed in 1894? Yes. 1746. How long was it before you got promotion?- I got promotion very quickly; the conditions were different then. There were

no grades then. The District Surgeon in Kuala Lumpur got more pay than a District Surgeon in Perak, and I was offered the appointment in Kuala Lumpur.

1747. What would be the average length of service cf a man appointed in 1906 before he would be pro- moted?-He probably would not have got into the first grade yet.

1748. How long would it take him?-It might take him 20 years.

1749. Under your schema a man has increments for 11 years and then stops, and possibly stops there for the rest of his service?-He still has the chance of a batter appointment. At present he stops at £450 and sees nothing in front of him.

1750. Just one point about passages; you say a man gets passages for himself, his wife and two children, coming back on leave every four years? I have not seen that laid down; it has been in vogue during the

war.

1751. It is a war measure? It was a recommen- dation of the late Commission.

1752. Nobody came home during the War?—I camo home just after the War.

1753. It is actually being done?—Yes. 1754. Supposing a

man got an appointment in Jamaica, would his pasange for himself, his wife and two children be paid?--Yes.

1755. When would he come home at his own ex- pense? If he left the service.

1756. If he left the service for Jamaica? He would leave the Government service altogether, unless the exchange was made by the Colonial Office.

1757. Under your scheme of interchanging of senior appointments the man would pay his own passage?— That should be recognised by the Colonial Office; if transferred by the Colonial Office, no.

1758. But they do not transfer to the extent which they ought to? No.

1759. Sir Humphry Rolleston: Is the opportunity for research, or doing work of any kind in natural history, an attraction to enter the service? To some men a great attraction.

1760. Are they able to make opportunities for it!- No.

1761. It is very difficult for a man to do any work of his own in Parasitology?--Yes, it is difficult; spina men do; if they are sufficiently keon they manage to do a little, but it is very difficult for a man who is in an appointment; perhaps attached to the Institute of Research, or a Government laboratory, he might. 1762. When a man comes home on leave it is op- tional, I suppose, it is not compulsory, for him to attend a coume, say, at the Tropical School, or take the D.P.H., or anything of that kind? In the Feder ated Malay States they have now laid it down that a man shall take up a course before he is appointed. 1769. But when he comes home on leave? Oh no, it is not compulsory.

1764. So a man may go from the time he first went out until he retired, without going through any fresh instruction? Quite.

02