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48
5 January, 1920.]
COLONIAL MEDICAL SERVICES COMMITTEE.
DR. 8. H. R. Locy.
SIXTH DAY.
Monday, 5th January, 1920.
PRESENT:
SIR WALTER EGERTON, K.C.M.G. (Chairman).
LIEUT. COLONEL SCR
BART., D.8.0.
HARRY VERNEY,
SURGEON REAR-ADMIRAL SIR HUMPHRY D.
ROLLESTON, K.C.B., M.D., F.R.C.P.
LIBUT-COLONEL SIR JAMES
[Continued.
KINGSTON
FOWLER, K.C.V.O., C.M.G., M.D., D.Sc., F.R.C.P.. R.A.M.C. (T.).
MR. T. HOOD, C.M G., M.R.C.S., L.R.C.P. MR. A. FIDDIAN.
MR. J. E. W. FLOOD (Secretary).
DB. 8. H. R. Lucy, Principal Medical Officer of the Straits Settlements, called and examined.
1673. Chairman: You are the Principal Medical Officer of the Straits Settlements?—Yes.
1574. How long have you served in that Colony?— A year. I was there three years from 1905 to 1908.
1575. You joined the Federated Malay States Medical Service?—Yes.
1576. When was that? In 1894.
1577. Do you consider the conditions of service in the Federated Malay States for Medical Officers are satisfactory ?-As regards pay, no; I do not think they pay them enough; they cannot get men.
1678. When war broke out in 1914, do you think the pay was adequate then? Yes.
1570. And that the inadequacy has only arison since then owing to the rise in the cost of living?-I think that is the main cause. I think there was not, at any time, a sufficient number of higher paid appointments to make the Service attractive,
1580. It is a very large Service?-The Straits and Federated Malay States combined.
1581. The two Services are more or less assimilated? -There is nothing laid down; transfers do occur.
1582. Transfers do occur?-Yes, but I do not think it is recognised that for transfer purposes the two services are interchangeable.
1589. Have you had transfers in all ranks; junior ranks as well as senior?-Yes, I think we have. I think house surgeons from Singapore are transferred to the Native States.
1584. Is there any reason why those two Services should not be unified and put on the same footing entirely? No; I can think of none.
1585. Do you think it would be an advantage?— In every way, an advantage.
1586. If you amalgamate those two, are there any others that you think might be added?- think the Unfederated Protected States should be taken in: Johore Kedah, Kelantan, and Trenganu have their
Own.
1587. They are separate from the Federated, are they ?--Oh yes, quite.
1688. Even in the Medical Service? Yes. Some. thing has been done, for instance, I think we now send men from the Straits to Johore, but the Principal Medical Officer in the Straits has no control over Johore.
1589. He has no control?—No.
1590. No say in the administration although it is close to him?—You.
1591. Are there any others; do you think Hong Kong could be joined in?--I do not think so.
1592. Why? As far as the junior ranks are con cerned, I think the language difficulty would be rather against transferring junior men to us from Hong Kong and vice versa. It is essential that the junior men should be acquainted with the vernacular.
1593. In the Straita? In the Straits. 1594. You are speaking of the Straits? Yes. 1595. By the vernacular, do you refer to Malay?— Malay and Chinese and Tamil.
1596. You have a very large number of Tamil coolies there? Yes, there are an increasing number.
1597. To go back to the question of pay, what alterations do you think are required now to make the Service generally contented? You have to con- sider, of course, the pay of other Departments?—I think the initial pay should be increased; I do not think we shall get any recruits.
1598. What would you put it at? About 450 dolları a month.
1599. 450 dollars at 2s. 4d. a dollar?—Yes. 1000. It is a fixed dollar, is it not? Yes.
1801. That is about £525?—Yes; all the junior assistants who come out to the private practitioners in Singapore commence at £500.
1602. Are not salaries in the Straits calculated in sterling ?-Yes; we are all paid in sterling; we have re- coinmended a change.
1603. You would recommend men commencing at £525P--Yes, the equivalent in dollars.
1604. And a fixed £525?--I think there should be annual increments.
1605. Annual increments; at what rate? About £25 a year or the equivalent in dollars.
1606. Up to what?-Up to 800 dollars a month. 1607. For the lowest grade?-Apart from the man getting promotion, that is getting one of the higher appointments, I think he ought to be able to see 800 dollars a month.
1608. See clear before him up to 800?—Yes. Dollars & month.
1600. So, if he did not get promotion, he would get a steady increase of £25 up to 800 dollars a month?
-I think so.
1610. I only want to get quite what your views are. Would you increase the higher grades proportionately,
or leave them as they are?—No, I think they should be increased too.
5 January, 1920.]
MINUTES OF EVIDENCE.
Dr. 8. H. R. Lucy,
1611. How many grades of Medical Officers have you got in the Federated Malay States?—I think there are three now, Sir.
1613. And in the States?--Three.
1818. Three in the Colony, and three in the States? There are a great number of men who are not of any particular grade, that is house surgeons and special appointments in Laboratories and Lunstic Asylums. There are always those appointments. Then, for the second grade, what would you start the second grade at? You have told us about the third grada, you think £525?—I do not think I would have grades. I think appointments would be sufficient. If a man sees that, apart from getting promotion to a senior appointment, he can get 800 dollars a month, I do not think there would be any necessity for higher grades; the higher appointments would fall into grades; some of them would be more valuable than others; I have not thought it would be necessary to grade them.
1614. Have them all go up to 800, and have special appointments drawing more than 800; that is what it comes to?-Yes. 800 dollars a month.
1615. Are there any other points besides pay where you think the position of the Medical Officer requires improvement?—I think they all ought to have houses provided for them.
1616. Quarters?-Yes, quarters.
1617. Unfurnished quarters, I suppose?-Yes, un- furnished. The Government now find furniture, if they supply quarters, at a rental,
1818. In the Colony ?-Yes; there is great difficulty with the quarters; they are nearly all married men in the Straits; there are insufficient quarters.
1619. And passages; do they receive free passages? -At present.
now
1620. That is on first appointment P-No, passages are paid both ways to Officers and their wives and two children.
1621. How often P-Every four years.
1628. If a man gets ill, say, after two years, would he have to pay his own passage?—He gets a propor- tion of it.
1823. Are there any facilities now for study, if a man comes home on leave?-No. Except, I believe, at the London School of Tropical Medicine.
1824. Does the Government help in any way?—The Government pay the fees.
1625. Fees, what for? For any particular course of study the Officer selecta P-No, I think it is only at the London School of Tropical Medicine.
1626. Only there; not for the D.P.H. course?—No. I think the leave question requires consideration. We now get eight months' full pay leave after four years: I think that is often insufficient for man to recover bis health, and I think they ought to give him the option of so much half-pay service in lieu of full pay so that he might be able to get three or four months' full pay, and up to a year half pay. 1627. Now, he gets two months' full pay for each year of service in the Colony?—Yes; no half pay.
1628. Subject to a maximum of eight months P→ Yes.
1629. And you do not think that is sufficient to recuperate his health ?-I think very often it is in- Juficient.
1690. You would give a man the option of taking, say, two months' half pay instead of one month's full? Yes, up to a year, at any rate.
1631. As regards pension, do you think any im- provement is required P-I think the pensionable age is too late at present; I think it should be reduced.
1632, What is it now ?-55.
1839. That is the optional?-You.
1634. What is the compulsory age?-80. 1685. It is the same as it was in my time?-Yes,
it is.
1698. Is there any offer of a lump sum to a Medical Officer retiring after so many years service --Oh! yes, he gets a month's salary for every year's service if he has not completed his pensionable service of ten years.
98218
[Continued.
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1637, I mean rather an arrangement like they have in the West African Medical Staff, under which a man can claim, I think, £1,000 after nine years P No; there is no arrangement of that kind.
1638. Do you think anything of that kind would be an improvement P-I think it certainly would.
1839. Would you not be liable to lose your best Officers; do you think they would leave you after nine years and take their £1,000?-I misunderstood, I thought when they would ordinarily get their pension, they could commute it.
1640. No. In the West African Medical Staff a man can claim £1,000 and go any time after nine years? I think if a man wants to go he is better ourt of the service.
1641. You do not think you would lose good men by offering that £1,000?-I do not think we should lose good men who were happy out there and desired to stay on.
1642. Have you anything to say on the subject of private practice? Do you think it is a good thing for Medical Officers to have it or not -I think it is essential that they should, in out-stations, as there is nobody else to do it, but I think not in towns; I think it should be limited to consulting work in
towns.
1843. Does not that lead to trouble, to jealousies, and so on? The consulting?
1844. No; some officers getting an appointment that has private practice, and others being sent to a place where they are not allowed it? Oh that is inevit- able; a man would like to be sent to a station where there is, but I do not think there has ever been any difficulty in the Straits from that cause.
1645. What is the position now in the Federated Malay Stutes regarding private practice ?--That is the position,
1048. That is the position, that in the towns they are not allowed private practice, and in the out dis- tricts they are?-Unless there is another private practitioner in the district; then they are not allowed private practice.
1647. Bo that a man might go to a district and have private practice, and then, whilst he was thero, s private practitioner might set up business, and then he loses private practice at once?—Yes, that is so.
1648. In the Colony is there a similar rule?—Yes, it is the same; they have no private practice.
1849. Not even in the district?-Not where there is another medical man.
1650. Do you consider the type of Medical Officers you are receiving now from home satisfactory? We have not had any for many years.
1851. You cannot get them P-No. I think before the War they were. I think we should have gentle- men who are of pure European descent in every
caro.
1652. Have you any mixed service; have you any that are not pure white in the service?-Oh, yes.
1653. And do you think they are not satisfactory? -No, I do not think so.
1654. You would rather have them all pure white? -The Colony, I think, is white.
1055. Then what subordinate medical service have you got? There is a large staff of assistant surgeons. 1656. They are called assistant surgeons, are they; they used to be called apothecaries?-Yes, except that now they are on the English Register. The University of Singapore is recognised; a man who has its Degree gete on the Colonial Register.
1657. It is a Medical Bahool? The assistant sur- geons now are all qualified men; they have some qualification-the Hong Kong, the Ceylon, the Indian, or the Straita.
1658. They are recruited as assistant surgeons?— Yes.
1650. And they cannot rise any higher? No, I do not think they have ever done so; there is no provision in any scheme for that. During the War, for instance, many of them have been acting in appointments.
1660. How do they get an improvement; are they en an'incremental scale?—Yes.
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