PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE
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PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON
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14
24 November, 1919.]
COLONIAL MEDICAL SERVICES COMMITTEE.
DR. JOHN OURRIR.
895. Chairman: Not on the east end of the island? -It might be put over there.
390. A sort of Training College?-I do not know whether they would get enough material; I think it would be a very good thing, if it could be done, most excellent, if the thing could be organised.
397. Is not the absence of material rather due to the absence of a large hospital? Oh, undoubtedly; but a large hospital in Zaria, for instance, would not attract a large clientele.
998. Abeokuta ?-Abeokuta, probably it would. 399. 250,000 P-Well, 200,000 to 250,000. Abeokuta possibly might. Lagos: A considerable number of people would go to it in Lagos. If any place is chosen I should say Lagos or its neighbourhood would be the best.
400. Mr. Fiddian: I think you said the only im- provement that the West African Medical Staff wanted, so far as you could judge, was more pay?-- Well, you must always bear in mind that I have not been near the coast since the 1st of April, 1917; I do not know how things are now.
401. But in 1917 that Wee your impression P That impression has been very much forced upon me since I came here.
402. You have been seeing Wost African Medical Staff Officers since you came home?-No, I have not. I am afraid my banking account is what has impressed it upon me more than anything else.
409. You really think that the whole of the in- creased cost of living ought to be made up? Yes. You do away with the attractions of the Service, do you not? Formerly it was the best of the Services.
404. Yes, You mean the other Services have had their pay put up, and therefore the West African Medical Staff should ?Why should you not make it worth the while of the man to go into the Service, as it was before the war? Your sovereign is worth about 9s. 6d. now, is it not?
405. Loss than that?-Therefore, my salary, which in January next will be £700 a year, is only worth about £350. Is it fair to cut down my salary by adding another third on to it? I hear it mooted that one-third is to be added. But war bonus will not satisfy us at all, because it is not pensionable. What is the good of a war bonus to us?
406. It is pensionable to some extent here. I daresay it would not be a very difficult matter to make it pensionable in the West African Service?- The rate of war bonus that I draw in about £80 a year. That is no uso to us. That must all be swept away, and we must have a proper increase of pay; we shall not be satisfied until we have it.
407. I gather, from your answers to Sir Humphry Rolleston's questions, that as far as you are con- cerned, you have never come across any prejudice. so to speak, on the part of medical men you have mat, who were not on the West Africa Medical Staff, against service in West Africa? No.
408. One of the witnesses told us that when he said he was on the West African Medical Staff-his phrase was, I think, that a sort of influence was felt, a sort of stigma. You have not come acros that at all? No, I have not come across it.
409. Dr. Hood: With regard to the native medical officers, you know all of them in Nigeris?--I know Dr. Sapara.
410. You practically know them all?-I forget who they are now.
411. I presume they are fair specimens of native men as intelligent as most natives?----Yes.
You
412. If you were Principal Medical Officer would not favour placing them in charge of a station where they were not accessible, would you?— No, not where they were not accessible.
419. It is the custom, if they are stationed any. where, to atation them where they are easily accessible by a European medical officer?- Quite no, I think that is right.
[Continued.
coast places, that I have ever been stationed in are Lagos and Calabar.
415. It is distinctly higher there than it is at Kano?-Lagos is distinctly higher than at Kano.
416. And Calabar ?-Calabar is appalling.
417. You do not think a station allowance would be useful? No, I do not think so; I think you had better not do that.
418, Chairman: It makes difficulties about trans- for It makes difficulties about transfer, I should think, and many difficulties about giving special
station allowances,
419. Dr. Hood: Since the last memorial no serious discontent has come to your notice? Not to my
notice.
420. Except with regard to the pay? That, of course, is a war question, but apart from that
421. Chairman: Do you think that children ought to be allowed to go to West Africa? No, I do not, Bir; I do not think the time is ripe.
422. Wives?Yes, wives.
429. As a question of climate or A question of accommodation P-Yes, accommodation and communi- estion; I do not think the time is ripe yet for children to go to the Coast. I think that possibly in some years' time conditions may have altered, but I do not think the time is ripe.
424, Mr. Fiddian: There are all sorts of practical difficulties, the absence of other children to play with and the absence of the class of nurse?—Yes, there are other difficulties too.
425. Chairman: You were saying that the coast was more expensive than the interior-That is my experience.
426. Is that counterbalanced in the case of medical officers by their having good private practice?—I could not have lived in Calabar had it not been for private practice.
427. Medical officers have an advantage in places on the coast? In certain places.
428. Mr. Fiddian: How does an officer of another department, say, a District Officer, live in Calabar?
He does not have such a good time; I
presume he is more hard put to it.
429. You could not have lived in Calabar if you had not had private practice. How, then, do other people, who have not private practice; do they live? They do live, but I could not have lived, for the simple reason that I have to keep a house at home; I have a boy at school; I have to keep two establish- ments, you see.
480. There are a good many other officers in the same position?-Other officers in the same position as I was, in that respect, then? Who could they have been?
431. District Commissioners? No; I think there was only myself in those conditions.
432. Sir James Foteler: Would you, as a member of the West Africa Medical Staff, approve the admis- sion of natives to the Staff?-They are there already,
Sir.
Chairman: I think you mean on the same con- ditions.
Mr. Fiddian They are not members of the staff at present.
433. Sir James Fowler: They are not members of the Staff at present?-I did not know that that distinction was made, that they are not members of the Staff.
434. Absolutely? They are just subsidiary medical officers.
aro
435. They are just medical officers; they nothing on the Staff, they never have been?-Oh! No.
436. Chairman: Would you approve of their being admitted as members of the Staff on the same con- ditions as Europeans? Only one of those that I know; I could have no objection to him, but as to the others
437. Sir James Fowler: I do not mean as to the present ones, but as a general principle?-We have not any others fit for that at present, but I have no doubt in the future it will be possible. I do not know how soon; a generation or two hence, perhaps.
414. With regard to living: It is recognised that living is very much higher on the coast than it is in the interior! Oh, yes. I do not say it always will be, because the only coast places, that I can call
(The Witness withdrew.)
24 November, 1919.]
MINUTES OF EVIDENCE.
128
15
[Continued.
MR. T. Hoop, C.M.G., M.R.C.8., L.R.C.P. (Director of the Medical and Sanitary Service, Nigeria), examined.
438. Chairman: You have seen this draft list of headings under which evidence of witnesses is desired?--Yes, I have.
439. You might give us your opinion on (1) Brief general explanation of organisation of medical and sanitary service of Colony with which you are con cerned It would be rather difficult to give a brief general explanation.
440. I do not think we need go through that. We have had it? You will find it in the rules and regulations.
441. We all know it fairly in regard to West Africa I might comment on my own function.
442. I think we might begin with that. You are Director of the Medical Service in Nigeria?—Yes.
443. And your duties are purely supervisory?-- Well, they are more advisory.
444. You have no administrative duties? Practic ally no administrative duties; they are to some slight extent administrative.
445. The chief administrative officers are the two Principal Medical Officers ? The two Principal Medical Officers.
446. Do you think that satisfactory?-I think it has been very satisfactory during the amalgamation, but now that the two provinces are amalgamated I think it is somewhat redundant. With regard to purely advisory, I think that the Head of the Medical Department in Nigeria should be now one advisory and administrative officer.
447. With an assistant? With two assistanta. 448. With two assistants living in the same station with him?-Oh! no; I should recommend a Director and two Assistant Directors, because the country is so very large that he could not carry out his duties entirely by himself. The main part of the duty of the Director, so far as I understand, is the inspection of stations, and it is impossible, physically impossible, to be continually running all over Nigeria; he must either have a deputy or no assistant. Of course, one would be on leave.
449. Then you would always want an assistant resident at your headquarters capable of taking charge during your absence?--Certainly.
450. Would you make him the second senior officer? Yes, I would make him the second senior officer. 451. And the other assistant you would station in the Northern Provinces? If there happened to be the two assistanta out at the same time.
462. You would have one on leave? Yes. The Medical Department with regard to the Southern Provinces is still run on the old plan; it is the only Department that is run on the old plan, the provincial system. There is Provincial Medical Officer at Calabar, Warri and at Lagos; and I should suggest that the whole of the Northern Provinces should be regarded as a Province.
I
453. One Province?-One Province; and, so far a I can see, Lagos will always have to be the head- quarters of the Medical Department.
doubt whether you can transfer it to Kaduna and do it satisfactorily.
454. There are many more officers in the Southern Provinces than in the Northern - Many more, about 30 per cent more.
455. Although the population of the Northern territory is believed to be bigger than the Southern? --I think so.
456. That is the only alteration you would make in Nigeria. Would you be Head of the Sanitary Service too? Certainly,
457. You are now? The whole thing would have to bo co-ordinated under one man.
458. And that might be carried cut at once? Yes, I think so. Everything now is co-ordinated; all the laws and regulations are common to the hole of Nigeria, and medical forms are all common.
459. Have you anything to say on Head (3) Any racial, linguistic, or other local peculiarities affecting conditons of service in the Colony?--I agree yh Dr. Currie, I think Hausa is a very important language for a Medical Officer to acquire,
480. You think all the junior Medical Officers should acquire some language? I think they should acquire either Hatina or Yoruba. I think the Delta
languages are not worth bothering about. For one thing, the natives of the Delta do not come before the Medical Officer.
461. That is Ibo?-That is Ibo. I think it is very essential that they should learn either Hausa or Yoruba.
462. It helps them in their medical duties?— Undoubtedly.
469. And in their sanitary duties also?-Particu Jarly in sanitary work.
484. Is knowledge of the local language so in portant when a man becomes more senior? No, I do not think it is, because the more senior a man be. comes the less likely is he to do medical work. That is one of the awful things in the Service, that a man
who is really an able medical man, rather an able physician or an able surgeon, should drift into administrative work.
465. But he must in any Government Service?—I made a recommendation some time ago to try and rectify that, but it fell through for the moment. do not know whether it will ever be revived.
466. What was that recommendation-I recom- mended that staff surgeons should be appointed, that there should be a certain number of staff surgeons
appointed--beginning with surgeons. I thought it was better to begin with surgeons than another branch. There are one or two very brilliant men in the Nigerian Service at the present time, and it seems to me appalling that they should drift into administrative work, if it can be avoided, and I think it can be avoided.
487. You would have a certain number of well-paid surgeon appointments?-Well-paid appoint-
Blaff ments.
468. And they would carry out surgical work?--- They would carry out surgical work.
469. In any part of the Colony-They would be in big centres where surgical cases were.
470. The cases would be sent to them P-Certainly. 471. The language difficulty is no bar, or really only
a slight bar to the amimilation of the Services in the different Colonies I do not think it is.
472. Because the transference does not generally take place until the man is fairly established?--Until he has been ten or twelve years in the place; that has been my experience.
479. It is a drawback to the transfer of a junior officer if he has learnt the language in one Colony? Undoubtedly, because if he worked among the natives to any extent he would have to pick up another native language.
474. Head (4): Do you consider conditions of service (salary, private practice, leave ponsion, etc.) generally satisfactory. If not, how would you suggest amend
ment, bearing in mind the conditions of service of other Government officers?-I certainly consider they were satisfactory up to the acute stage of the War. I certainly think some of the men have been hard hit and have had a difficulty to meet their expenses, especially those men who have had to keep up an establishment at home.
475. They are like all other people?-It has hit everybody, but I think it has hit the medical men more hardly than the political or any other member of the Government.
The
476. It must affect recruiting ?-I think has affected recruiting, because I am given to under- stand that other Services have met the case. Indian Medical Service has; I do not know whether the Army and the Navy have to any great extent.
477. I think the Army and Navy have. 478. (Sir Humphry Rolleston): There has been an increase of pay in the Navy?--Is it a substantial increase?
(Chairman): The Navy. I think, is not as liberal as the Army scale.
(Sir Humphry Rolleston): It is very like the pro- portion which was mentioned a moment ago.
479. (Chairman): Are they generally earning more than before? The appointments that a newly passed medical man can look forward to are much better paid now than formerly?-Certainly. With regard to hospital appointments, and the ordinary junior