CO885-(26N14) — Page 153

127

Reference -

immimco

885/26

ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC- | COPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH-NOT TO Į

PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON

A

12

24 November, 1919.]

COLONIAL Medical SERVICES COMMITTEE,

DR. JOHN GORRIE.

Mr. Fiddian: Occasionally. Secretary: Occasionally they ask for it, and I have known a caso where one West African doctor had to be moved from another Colony, owing to a tremendous shortage.

319. Mr. Fiddian: I know such cases; in the early stages of the War there were three or four?—That is rather an exception.

320. Yet you yourself, if you had such an offer, would not go to East Africa at any price?--Well, not under conditions as they are now.

321. The pay should be assimilated?—Yes.

822. Chairman: On promotion, you would not object to go. It depends; the promotion would have to be considerable? The promotion would have to be considerable.

323. Mr. Fiddian: Then you would consider it? Then I would consider it.

924. In an Amalgamated Service, the grade would be immediately above. If you were offered a job as principal medical officer in East Africa, from West Africa-I am putting it as a hypthetical case you would take it on existing conditions?—On existing conditions I would take it for the sake of the extra pay, and in the expectation that other conditions

ould be amalgamated.

326. Had the War bonus been given when you were in East Africa?—I believe it had been agreed to in Nigeria; it must have been because I have drawn War bonus; I drew three months' War bonus from Nigeria.

326. When you spoke of the discontent in East Africa, had the War bonus been given to East African doctor at that time? It was only just beginning; I forget what date it dated back from.

327. Do you think the terms of leave would have to be equalised as between East and West; that is to say that you have to give the same comparatively liberal terms of leave in East as West Africa?—I think it is very much better for the capability of the man. I will put two or three points before you, if I may, in that respect.

328. Do? This is drawn from experience in East Africa. You get young fellows, medical officers, as well as others, going out there under the impression that it is a beautiful country, a fine healthy country, and there is plenty of shooting, everything in the garden is going to be lovely. They sign on for a long tour of service. They get out there and find the pay in small, and everything in the garden is not lovely. But the Administration there allow and encourage a man to marry and take his wife out there.

329. Encourage; that is a strong expression ?—I will go so far as to say that I am very nearly right in saying, encourage.

390. I have never seen any sign of it, I am bound to Bay? How would you account for this: An A.D.C. in his first year being put into a more or less settled station and his senior officer having to go off into the buah ?

881. I should say he got married first, and the favourable station followed afterwards?—It is not a favourable station for ladies, hut there it was. This unfortunate lady followed the course of nature, and he was more than ever tied to the station, and eventually he had to take her down to Jinja to a hospital for her confinement. He was away from his station for quite a long time, and he just pottered about in Jinja. Then, he came back again with her to the same station. In the meantime, his work had to be done by already overworked A.D.C.'s there, and naturally the whole work of the district fell behind hand.

992. That difficulty might apply to anybody who took his wife to East Africa, "unless she were of a certain age?-Quite so. That is not the end of the story, for he did it again, and he was away from his station on the second occasion for ten weeks at least. 399. Have you ever known a similar difficulty in West Africa P-No.

334. I have heard of such a story as the medical officer haring to bring his own wife down to the Comet owing to severe illness P-I do not remember who it was.

[Continued.

895. You were to put some othor point?—That was the case of an A.D.C. Now, there is an unfortunate medical officer on the Uganda staff who was allowed to bring his wife out there, and she had two children, I think, born in the country. He has not been able to get home for eight years, simply because the pay was But good enough, and he could not find the money to take his wife home. In that time he could not save the money. Now, he is still out there; how can he trek about the country; he is a junior man on the staff?

396. Still, even that does not establish the charge of encouraging officers to marry?—I am not running a tilt at the Colonial Office; please do not think that. 337. It is what we are here for. Supposing I were to put it to you that all that happens is that the Government does not forbid a married man to take his wife out? The fact of the matter is, in these two Colonies-Uganda I know better than others— there are too many men have their wives out there; that is to say, many of the junior men are allowed by the local Administrations to take their wives out there. When an adventure of the sort I have just described to you happens, it is the Administration that pays for everything-loss of time and service- even the wife's transport.

338. Have you ever known discontent produced among medical officers in West Africa by their not being able to take their wives out?-Well, I cannot say that I have, because it is an understood thing; at least, I have always understood it that, when a man arrives at a certain seniority, he has a certain amount of claim to a more or less fixed station, where he is not obliged to go very far afield. In these conditions he has little difficulty in obtain- ing the necessary permission from the head of the Department, and, so far as I personally am aware, I do not think there is a lot of discontent in that way. At least, if there is, I have not met with it.

339. How long were you before you became senior medical officer?--I think it was 11 years.

340. Do you consider that an unreasonably long time; I expect you did at the time, but, looking back upon it now, what do you think?-Well, yes, parhaps it is rather long; I think 10 years would have been sufficient.

841. You would not have been discontented if you had got your Senior Medical Officership in 10 years? -I do not think I should have had a right to be dis contented at that. I think 11 to 12 years is long time.

942. Do you think there is any ill-feeling in the Nigerian Medical Staff that promotion is too slow?- I cannot say; I have not been there since 1917.

349. I expect you have seen a good deal of the West African Medical Staff?—I have seen a good many of the West African Medical Staff, men over on the other side, but, unless you are at headquarters, you do not meet a very great number of people.

344. The West African Medical Staff Officers serv- ing in East Africa were remunerated on a rather favourable scale? My remuneration was my Nigerian

pay.

945. Plus duty pay? Of course, I drew my duty pay.

346. Was there any field allowance, or anything of that kind?When I got over there?

347. Yes. I got ration allowance of two or three rupees a day. I think.

348. But no fold allowance?-I have not handled it yet.

349. Were you 'definitely on military duty?-For 18 months I was on military duty.

I do

350. With a rank? I had the rank of captain. 351. I think there was some field allowance. not mean that you should found a claim on this; you can if you like?-I do not know that I was entitled to any field allowance.

852. You said that the West African Medical Staff in Nigeria was under the control of the Director. That was rather a strong expression; the Director himself repudiates it?-Dr. Hood would be able to explain that better than I could.

24 November, 1919.]

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE.

DR. JOHN CURRIR.

363. You got your instructions from the Principal Medical Officer Naturally the Head of wy Province.

354. There are no Medical Otheers of Health in Nigeria ! There is a Medical Officer of Health in Lagos.

355, Who is it?—I do not know who it is now.

956. Chairman: There has been one for a long time in Lagos?—Yes, I think Dr. Tynan was in your time, Sir.

957. Mr. Fiddion; But, otherwise, there are none? There has been some change made.

368. Dr. Hood: There is a new Publio Health Ordinance; you know that?-No, I do not know that. Every medical officer of a station is ipso facto Medical Officer of Health in the district.

359. Mr. Fiddian: So he is everywhere in Wast Africs; I was thinking of special appointments such the Gold Coast-Municipal business you

รูป on

mean?

380. Yes, with special rates of pay?--Yos. 361. I have heard it suggested there are balf dosan, or even more, such appointments on the Gold Coast, but none in Nigeria P-The conditions are quite different.

362. You have not heard of any discontent being caused by that circumstance? I have not.

Chairman: You say there are a number of medical officers of health on the Gold Coast.

Mr. Fiddian: Yes, with special rates of pay. Chairman: What are they engaged on? Mr. Fiddian: On sanitary work for particular towns.

369. Chairman: I wonder whether that has any thing to do with their being sea-ports where ships go? They are all sea-ports except Kumasi.

964. Mr. Fiddian: It does not seem to have made much difficulty as far as Nigeria is concerned. Your West African service has been in Nigeria?—That is

all.

365. And you have not found any practical dis- advantage from them?.-Disadvantage?

966. Your rather like it? Yes, I like Nigeria. 367. You like to be moved about?—I want to go back to Nigeria.

968. Chairman: Dr. Currie was once at one of the best stations in Nigeria?--Ất the top of a hill.

969. There is a very nice house, or nice quarters?-- A very nice place there.

970. Mr. Fiddian: About the language question, I suppose Hauss would carry you anywhere in the Northern Province, but what about the Southern ?- You can go from Lagos to Khartoum with a know- ledge of Hausa.

371. But surely, for practical working purposes in Southern Nigeria a knowledgo of Hausa would not bn of very great value? I had no Hausa interpreter when I was Medicat Officer of Health for Ibadan. All the butchers in the town were Hausas, and I was the only person on my staff who could deal with them.

372. Would you say that Medical Officers in the Southern Provinces should be expected to learn Hausa rather than Yoruba, for instance?-I think you must have your choice of languages, like you

cover a greater territorial aren

than any

other language. I say, with nothing but Hause you can go from Lagos to Khartoum, or to Tripoli.

have in the political sphere. I suppose Hausa will

978. It has been done?--But Yoruba will carry you through Yorubaland and the Benin country. Then, in the Delta there is no language which is any good except "pidgin " English. The other language is the Ibo language.

374. I have heard that there are medical stations where none of these languages is of any use. 18 that so I do not know very much about the Cross River and the Delta.

975. Chairman: Even at a placo like Calabar you probably find some Hausas, so that a Medical Officer at Calabar who could only speak Hauss could pro- bably find someone to act as interpreter to him?.. That is quite true, Bir.

[Continued.

13

376. Mr. Fiddian : You spoke of the native Medical Officers as being " subordinate Medical Service. That is not quite strictly correct, is itr- Well, they are not exactly on the same footing as ourselves. If you can find a better word than "sub- ordinate

877. I know they are not, in the matter of puy?- Their pay is not the same; they do not get in- crements in the same way as we do.

978. Chairman: And they do not get prumotion ? -They do not get promotion.

379. Mr. Fiddian: You said you thought more nae might be made of native medical officers?--Weil, there is one thing that must not happen, if it tau possibly be avoided; that is, the invitation to the Indian subordinate medical staff to come over and help us.

380. I do not think that is suggested P-As long As that is understood.

381. I was thinking of the native West African who qualified a a medical man---The native West Áfrican is full of brains, if he could only get them properly trained; he is na fool.

982. He is sufficiently reliable to be left in charge of a station? That is a personal matter. I know there are

some people that I am absolutely sure could be, and I am quite certain that there are some other qualified native medical officers whom I would not like to leave in charge of any station.

989. It is a personal matter, but you might find a use even for that last class?--They might take a sort of position of subordinate assistant surgeon; that is to say, in a busy station, where there is a large district, where you really want more than one medical officer, he could be associated with a native medical officer as his assistant who would be entrusted with a certain amount of work, but I do not think he would like to be called a subordinate assistant

surgeon.

are

the

384. Do you find that the nativa medical officers more popular with natives than a European doctor would be?- I think they look to European doctor as being something a little more high class, and more of the consulting type.

385. For ordinary day to day ailments they prefer a native officer?-The native doctors in a place like Lagos do a very useful and busy practice.

386. Do Europeans ever call in a native medical officer? They have to sometimes, I suppose P-They have to sometimes; they would not if there were a European there.

987. None of them would?-I do not know that no European would; I cannot speak for all Europeans who go out there, but I think, speaking generally for European traders, they would not. I know in the old days that Elder, Dempster and Company, and, I think, the Bank of British West Africa in Lagos, employed Dr. Randle, who was a native, paid him a retainer for it, but that has long since been given up both by the Mail Agency and the Bank.

388. They employ an ordinary European medical Officer ? A European medical officer; probably in that case it would be Dr. Gray.

389. Dr. Gray is not in the Service ?-No, but he is a European.

990. Chairman: He was in the Service ?-He was at one time.

391. Mr. Fiddian: He is very nearly the only private practitioner you have in Nigeria, a Euro pean?-Dr. Maples is back in the Service!*

392. Do you think it better that natives should be trained for Medical Officers in England? I heard the contrary very strongly urged by people, that it would be better to have a local school; that it spoilt a native to come to this country for his medical education - I agree with that point of view to a very large extent, but we have not got the school.

393. No, but the schools could be founded, perhaps? -Yes. There is no coast town, I think, which is yet capable of providing the scope necessary.

994. Not even Lagos?-Well, Lagos has only 75,000 inhabitants, Sir, and a Medical School could hardly be put on the island, which is very overcrowded.