PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE
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Reference :-
COPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH—NOT TO
885/26
PUBLIC
RECORD OFFICE, LONDON ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC-
MINUTES OF EVIDENCE.
DR. JOHN CORMIN.
nothing in it? Not a bit. your opinion goes, the two Ely merged in one with the ›nditions in every respect--
eave conditions are not the
J.
The pay is not the same?
•; the gratuities are not the
y have got any gratuities at
lifficulty in East Africa, in hat, if you had to rule that ive for 12 months, it would ng & man at Nairobi for a ate for a Colony by the best
some
irobi, but there are
airobi is not such a healthy but I quite see your point;
F. Lugard's evidence about id I noticed that he says for Nigeria, a man could stop you and I know that some it harm to themselves. There
e spots. Bues, for example, could stop for quite a long
a pleasant place and Oyo is
But, then you would say
of the appointments in East ything in West Africa from
th? I do not know about to figures.
jot judge much by the best whether East Africa is half ?--I should not put half of
alf? Considerably less than
of having the recruits, of in one, he detrimentalP1 bė,
man might be sent to West would not deter him from effect has it in India? If dical Services you have to If you join the African
e holds good.
do not say it ought to make When a
man takes up a he has to abide by the con-
+
sions who object?--Oh! well.
work the other way too, for
t more people willing to go. West Africa; they would all ey might go to East Africa,
worked in that way. There which the men put down 1 Nigeria. In practice they ery well; very few people practice by the fact that going to Nigeria; they can provinces--We were always am for the Colony we pre-
id still are. If there was a
put their names down for
terton. Do you think there old prejudice of the stigma whether it has improved?-- ofessional stigma?
that; I was going to say rica; we had been informed rly to the medical staff?— scrape the gutters of the
men to go out there; is that
126
11
[Continued,
904. As to whether you thought there was still a stigma expressed by 3 d's about going to West Africa ? -I have never heard anything about it. I must say this is the first that I have heard of it. I mean to say the place is not a health resort, and the man who goes into the tropice it does not matter where he goes must be prepared to take such risks as there are, but, over and above that I am not aware that
there is any stigma.
305. It certainly does not apply; well, if it does not exist the specific question falls to the ground. We
were rather given to understand that there was a general prejudice against people who went to the West Coast, and particularly against the medical staff? And that the result was, you got a poor
quality of man, socially and professionally, for that is what it boils down to.
308. That would explain that?—I do not know.
307. If that exista?—I am not aware that that does
exist, but I do know this, that the constant cry amongst the men fighting in German East Africa was, "For God's sake send us a West African doctor."
308. Well, that is very satisfactory. The other question I was going to ask you was about the ques tion of the hypothetical Director-General. Suppose there was a man in the office now, whose function across the sea was to get in touch with all the Colonial medical men, what style of man do you think would
be best suited for the poet? Suppose there was such a man, would he be a man who had had a certain amount of experience, as one of yourselves, or a man in such a good position in the profession in England that his name would carry weight? I do not think the West African Medical Service would tolerate a R.A.M.C. man to start with, or an I.M.8. man; I should prefer myself one of our own selves; I think far better one of our own Heada.
309. The choice in my mind was between one of yourselves, and, say, one of the men whom you might call the Heads of the profession in London?-No, we do not want them, we would rather they did not come; I would rather have one of ourselves.
310. You understand the conditions when you have been out there in the tropics. There are very few of the Heads of the profession who have been, and really understand tropical conditions?-Very few.
311. Mr. Fiddian: Supposing you got a man for this post who always had served in West Africa, obviously his usefulness, as regards other parts, say, East Africa, would he limited?--Of course it would. 312. He would be better than a man who had never been out, but he might misjudge a West Indian ques- tion that came before him? That was one reason why I said I think you had better separate the West Indian business entirely from the African and the Eastern.
or
319. But, the idea of having a Director-General, Inspector-General, for each of them, at the Colonial Office, would be rather impracticable; you could not have a little Department composed exclu- sively of Directors-General?-It would be rather awkward if you had three Directors-General, I know.
314. You expressed yourself strongly in favour of extending, if I may say so, the Medical Service to cover East Africa, to have a tropical African Medical Service? Yes.
!
315. Do you think the same freedom of movement would be possible; if a man is promoted to be senior medical officer, he may be sent, he would be sent, just where the vacancy occurred; a man in Northern Nigeria might be sent to Gambia; it would not be so easy to send him to Somaliland or Zauzibar?—Why. 316. Because he would not know so much about it? --I do not think there is much he would not be able to pick up easily.
317. He would be perfectly willing to go?-If it is known he may be transferred on promotion, as we are now, I do not think he would have any objection; I should think he would be rather glad. He has st least a basis of tropical knowledge, and he would be able to fill in gaps.
318. Chairman: Except on promotion, men do not like transfer to another Colony ?-I do not-think they usually ask for it.
B 2
12
24 November, 1919.)
COLONIAL MEDICAL SERVICES COMMITTEE,
DR. JOHN CURELE.
Mr. Fiddian: Occasionally. Secretary: Occasionally they ask for it, and I have known a case where one West African doctor had to be moved from another Colony, owing to a tremendous abortage.
319. Mr. Fiddian: I know such cases; in the early stages of the War there were three or four-That is rather an exception.
320. Yet you yourself, if you had such an offer, would not go to East Africa at any price? Well, not under conditions as they are now.
321. The pay should be assimilated P--Yee.
892. Chuirman: On promotion, you would not object to go. It depends; the promotion would have to be considerable? The promotion would have to be considerable.
323. Mr. Fiddian: Then you would consider it?— Then I would consider it.
324. In an Amalgamated Service, the grade would be immediately above. If you were offered a job as principal medical officur in East Africa, from West Africa-I am putting it as a bypthetical case-you would take it on existing conditions?—On oxisting conditions I would take it for the sake of the extra
pay, and in the expectation that other conditions would be amalgamated.
325. Had the War bonus been given when you were in East Africa?--I believe it had been agreed to in Nigeria; it must have been because I have drawn War bonus; I drew three monthr' War bonus from Nigeria.
338. When you spoke of the discontent in East Africa, had the War bonus been given to East African doctors at that time?-It was only just beginning; I forget what date it dated back from.
327. Do you think the terms of leave would have to be equalised as between East and West; that is to say that you have to give the same comparatively liberal terms of leave in East as West Africa?--I think it is very much better for the capability of the man. I will put two or three points before you, if I may, in that respect.
328. Do? This is drawn from experience in East Africa. You get young fellows, medical officers, as well as others, going out there under the impression that it is a beautiful country, a fine healthy country, and there is plenty of shooting, everything in the garden is going to be lovely. They sign on for a long tour of service. They get out there and find the pay in small, and everything in the garden is not lovely. But the Administration there allow and encourage a man to marry and take his wife out there.
890. Encourage; that is a strong expression ?-1 will go so far as to say that I am very nearly right in saying, encourage.
990. I have never seen any sign of it, I am bound to say? How would you account for this: An A.D.C. in
his first year being put into a more or less settled station and bis senior officer having to go off into the bush P
881. I should say he got married first, and the favourable station followed afterwards? It is not a favourable atation for ladies, but there it was. This unfortunate lady followed the course of nature, and he was more than ever tied to the station, and eventually he had to take her down to Jinju to a hospital for her confinement. He was away from his station for quite a long time, and he just pottered about in Jinja. Then, he came back again with her. to the same station. In the meantime, his work had to be done by already overworked A.D.C.'s there, and naturally the whole work of the district fell behind hand.
392. That difficulty might apply to anybody who took his wife to East Africa, unless she were of a That is not the end of the certain age? Quite so. story, for he did it again, and he was away from his station on the second occasion for ten weeks at least. 898. Have you ever known a similar difficulty in West Africa ? No.
934. I have heard of such a story as the medical officer having to bring his own wife down to the Coast owing to severe illness? I do not remember who it was.
[Continuad
335. You were to put some other point?-That was the case of an A.D.Ú. Now, there is an unfortunate medical officer on the Uganda staff who was allowed to bring his wife out there, and she had two children, I think, born in the country. He has not been able to get home for eight years, simply because the pay was not good enough, and he could not find the money to take his wife home. "In that time he could not save the money. Now, he is still out there; how can he trak about the country; he is a junior man on the staffy
396. Still, even that does not establish the charge of encouraging officers to marry?—I am not running a tilt at the Colonial Office; please do not think that. 937. It is what we are here for. Supposing I were to put it to you that all that happens is that the Government does not forbid a married man to take his wife out? The fact of the matter is, in these two Colonies-Uganda I know better than others— there are too many men have their wives out there; that is to say, many of the junior men are allowed by the local Administrations to take their wives out there. When an adventure of the sort I have just described to you happens, it is the Administration that pays for everything-loss of time and service- even the wife's transport.
398. Have you ever known discontent produced among medical officers in West Africa by their not being able to take their wives out? Well, I cannot say that I have, because it is an understood thing; at least, I have always understood it that, when a muan arrives at a certain seniority, he has a certain amount of claim to a more or less fixed station, where be is not obliged to go very far afield. In these conditions Lo has little difficulty in obtain- ing the necessary permission from the head of the Department, and, so far as I personally am aware, I do not think there is a lot of discontent in that way. At least, if there is, I have not met with it.
299. How long were you before you became senior medical officer?--I think it was 11 years.
340. Do you consider that an unreasonably long time; I expect you did at the time, but, looking back upon it now, what do you think?-Well, yes, perhaps it is rather long; I think 10 years would have been sufficient.
841. You would not have been discontented if you had got your Senior Medical Officership in 10 years? ---I do not think I should have had a right to be dis- contented at that. I think 11 to 12 years is a long time.
342. Do you think there is any ill-feeling in the Nigerian Medical Staff that promotion is too slow? I cannot say; I have not been there since 1917.
343. I expect you have seen a good deal of the West African Medical Staff?—I have seen a good many of the West African Medical Staff, men over on the other side, but, unless you are at headquarters, you do not meet a very great number of people.
344. The West African Medical Staff Officers serv- ing in East Africa were remunerated on a rather favourable scale?-My remuneration was my Nigerian pay.
pay.
845. Plus duty pay? Of course, I drew my duty 346. Was there any field allowance, or anything of that kind P-When I got over there?
347. Yes. I got ration allowance of two or three
/ rupees a day, I think.
348. But no field allowance? I have not handled it. yet.
949. Were you definitely on military duty? For 16 months I was on military duty.
350. With a rank?-I had the rank of captain. 351. I think there was some field allowance. I do not mean that you should found a claim on this; you can if you like? I do not know that I was entitled to any field allowance.
352. You said that the West African Medical Staff in Nigeria was under the control of the Director. That was rather a strong expression; the Director himself repudiates it?-Dr. Hood would be able to explain that better than I could.
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