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COLONIAL MEDICAL SERVICES COMMITTEE.
17 November, 1919.]
MR. JOSEPH Arthur Pickels, M.B., B,8. (London), &c.
beard the opinion expressed very often that they would strongly object to being moved to another place.
6. From the Government point of view, do you think there are disadvantages in moving an officer from one Colony to another?I think, from the Government point of view, there are distinct ad vantages in being able to do it.
6. Has the scheme worked well in West Africa, do you think; has it been of advantage generally, first, from the point of view of the Government, and secondly to the officers concerned? As regards the moving about, there has been very little of it really, except on promotion. I mean to say, there have not been many changes made in the >taff from une Colony to another.
7. No; but, on promotion, do you think that the present system is better than the former system, where the man stopped in the same Colony all his career? I think it is more advantageous to be able to change, if it is necessary. There may be vacancies for which in one Colony there is only a junior man available, whereas in other Colonies there are men who have served a number of years.
8. As regards supply of candidates, new officers, do you think that more candidates are attracted, owing to the scheme which is now in force in West Africa; or would you say that when they get to one Colony they stop there?—I think it has a tendency to attract, because they see more chances. I look upon it that the reason we do not get more candidates is, that the position of the trained man, the pro- fessional position, the position in England of a who goes to the West Coast is not quite satisfactory, except among those who really know.
foods you have, are very much higher.
[Continued.
Everything
that is imported, of course, follows more or less the lines here, but everything is following up on the same lines; market prices, even in inland remote districts, have gone up very considerably.
20. Taking the whole thing altogether, how much do you think the cost of living has increased; how much per cent. P-I have not gone into the question to that extent. One hears what people say, but I do not go on that. Investigations have been made, and I have no doubt you know all about it.
21. Sir James Fowler: On the questions you have already been asked: Have the Government rates for the removal of officers' furniture been altered lately? Some time ago there was a complaint that the weight was limited, but the cost was very high; has there been any alteration in that?-I think I am correct in saying the railway rates have gone up.
22. But there was a special inland rate for the removal of officers' furniture?-Free transport up to a certain limit; it is 8 cwts., I think; something like that.
23. Chairman: So that increase of prices does not affect that?—It does not affect that, but our luggage a limited to B cwts. free.
24. Dr. Hood: I think the arrangement for the freight is that, when the man is arriving in the Colony, he is allowed so much, and when he is returning; but when he is moved-when you were moved from Lagos to Kano-you paid your own freight I did not in that case, but I shall have to do in this case. KINA
In arriving at Lagos you can utilise all your loads you are allowed to take up country. You are allowed to take 2 loads a month up country, and you can add them on to your 8 cwta., and gradually work them off in that way.
25. Chairman: In Northern Nigeria, I think the practice was to bring up sufficient stores for the whole tour?—Yes; in many places now you have still to do so. At the capital there is a store three miles away, which is very small; you have to depend on your own provisions.
9. That is because of the bad reputation the West Coast has? The bad reputation it used to have. If a man says he is on the West Coast of Africa, well, one at times perceives a change of atmosphere. What I mean is, that unless something is really done to remove that, the difficulty will continue, I think, whatever you do.
10. Do you think it would be a good thing to join up East Africa and West in the Medical Service? The conditions are different, I believe, are they not? At present if they were to unify conditions on the lines of West Africa, it would be an ad. vantage to the others.
11. But not to West Africa?- Well, to mose a ren from West to East Africa, or the reverse, unless there is any special inclination to go, is a big change. It is like going to another land altogether, whereas in West Africa the places are all more or less known to us all.
12. But from the medical point of view the disesses and conditions are very much the same in the two? Oh, yan.
13. How long service have you had? You have been entirely in West Africa, have you not?--Yes, altogether.
14. Have you been in Southern Nigeria?—Yes.
15. How many years altogether?—31.
16. The conditions have very much improved dur- ing that time? Oh, enormously
17. Do you think the Medical Service out there is contented now?—I do not know of any special reasons for discontent at present.
You hear of a lot of people who say lot of things that they really do not mean, or they are not prepared to back up. There is no doubt that the climate also makes them a little bit liable to those ideas, which disappear to a large extent when you have been on leave. Up in Northern Nigeria one hears very little of those things. 18. Do you think that the salaries are adequate now? Do you think that a man joining has a fair prospect of sufficient increase of salary to keep him contented P--Well, if there were not so many ex- penses, salaries would be all right. There are so many expenses nowadays that are quite different from what they were a few years ago. That puts a different aspect on the matter.
19. How does the cost of living compare in West Africa now with 1913, say 7-It is very much higher; and the market prices, even for the ordinary local
26. By the capital" you mean not Lagos ?—No, I mean the capital of Northern Nigeria.
27. Kaduna ?—Yes.
28. Sir James Fowler: In regard to a possible amalgamation of the West and East African Medical Staff, you recognise there are a great many men who will go to East Africa, but will not go to West Africa? I do not say that there are not; but I know from the men who have gone from West to East Africa we have had cables and letters requesting that they be asked for back again.
t'hairman: Not only from Medical men.
29. Sir James Fowler: Men who have gone to the East from the West?--To the East from the West,
yen.
30. They desired to return to the West?--Yes.
31. I can quite undertstand that, but, as a matter of fact, there are a considerable number of candi- daten who come before the Appointments Com- mittee who would not go to West Africa, but are willing to go to East Africa. If you unified the Staff, you would lose all those men, either from their own inclination, or very often from the pressure of their friends. They are not allowed to go to Wost Afries, bocause of the presumed dangers. If the West and East African Staff were merged into one Staff, they would be lost ?—Yes.
32. But the unification of the East African Medical Staff, on the lines of the West African Staff, is quite a different matter?-Oh, yes, quite.
33. Have you read what appears as an appendix to a report of a Committee that sat some time ago, one by myself, and another by Dr. Prout? Yes.
31. You have read that?—Yes, I read it this after-
noon,
35. Have you got anything to say on that?—In reference to what points?
36. In reference primarily to the creation of a Colonial Medical Service, as distinguished from Medical Appointments under the Colonial Office.
MINUTES OF EVIDENCE.
17 November, 1919.)
MR. JOSEPH ARTHUR PICKELS, M.B., B.S. (London), &c.
Colonial On page 38, the supposed advantages of a Medical Service are set out, and under (c) you will see what is written there. "Any medical man when asked, as he often is, What are you going in for?' would be provided with a brief reply carrying a definite meaning, viz., The Colonial Medical Ser- vice, just as he now answers, Private practice,' The Royal Army Medical Corps, or the Indian Medical Service," " Does not that, to some extent, meet what you said just now when a man says he is in West Africa? Yes, to a certain extent, but the conditions in some of those other Colonies are so different from the conditions in West Africa, that I think it would be rather difficult to merge them into one. Although you might call it the Colonial Medical Service, you would have to sub-divide it into West African, East African, and West Indian, and places of that kind,
37. It would not be, us is stated there quite clearly, a Service on the lines of the R.A.M.C., or the Indian Medical Service, or the Naval Medical Bervice, but it would be a Service with a West African section, Nor an East African section, and so on, and so on. could it possibly be a Service in which a man could be moved from one section to another; would that meet your objection?-I do not think that would be a satisfactory way.
When a man goes to the West African Coast, and makes it his life-work he is not ashamed of it.
38. I am afraid you have not taken my point. Most certainly he would remain in the West African Medical Bervice?—He would, but it is disguising it; it is trying to put a piece of muslin over it.
39. I do not think it could be quite described in that way, if you read the whole memorandum. Let us take the advantages as set out. Do you consider those are advantages, or do you not? I think the man on the staff in the service in West Africa would prefer to say he was in the West African Medical Staff to saying he was in the Colonial Service.
40. There would be nothing to prevent him anying he was in the West African Medical Staff, because there would be no alteration in the West African Medical Staff. At that Com- to make mittee, that point was decided, not
Have you anything to say on (e)? any change. "Possibly the most immediate and obvious advantage would be that throughout the Service, and particu- larly by the West African Medical Staff, it would be regarded as an attempt to provide them 'With an adequate channel through which to express any fool- ing of discontent which may arise at any time,' which seems to me one of the most important func tions of such an official?—Still, is not that provided for at present, Sir.
41. In what way?—He always has the P.M.O. of his Colony, or the Nigerian Director, and he can send them forward and ask them to be forwarded now. What I think is, possibly some men consider that more men might be interviewed at the Advisory Board at the Colonial Office.
42. There is nothing to prevent that also P-That is in (9).
43. The duties of the proposed Director General of the proposed Colonial Medical Service would be briefly as stated; I need not read all these out?--No.
44. I have heard that the secret of efficient admin- istration is an intelligent anticipation of agitation. Do you think that if an officer coming home had the opportunity of talking freely to one of his own pro- fession, that the person who was in receipt of those confidences might anticipate agitation, see things that were going to happen, and pre- vent them from happening? Because there has been. I think, since I have had something to do with this, certainly on three, if not more occasions, grave dis- content, notwithstanding the existence of these channels which already exist, which has come to a head. The point is whether that could not be pre- vented by a suficiently intelligent anticipation of the trouble. That is what I have in mind? I think that it would be a distinct help to prevent it; some- thing like that. Of course, it would depend a great
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deal on whether the man appointed had the confidence of both sides. If he had not the confidence of the Medical Officers, he would get very little information. 45. It would depend on the person appointed, no doubt?—Yes.
46. Does anything else occur to you on this memo- randum that you would like to put before the Com- mittee?-1 do not think su. Of course, quarters are a point on which men often are not happy.
47. They are rather poorly furnished? Yes, of course, there is not much furniture.
48. Chairman: It is the quarters themselves. is it not? The quarters, some of them.
49. The buildings?—Yes.
50. How are you off in Northern Nigeria now?-- They are improving; of course at the out stations there are some poor places.
61. Still mud huts?-Oh, yes, in some of them. 52. Sir James Fowler: If there were an official
and everybody who came home spoke about the quarters, for example, he would appreciate that was a point to which attention should be given, would he not? Oh, distinctly. You get men out there,
young men, who go out at first, and very soon want to take their wives out. Leaving the wife at home naturally means considerable expense.
58. You are distinctly in favour, I gather from your earlier statement, of keeping a man as much as possible in a certain post, say the one he has when he comes home, that he should return to that post, and should be kept there as long as possible?—I think the man has to be judged partly on his own character, and partly on results. Maybe you may find it desir able that a man should be changed, if he does not do BO well as you could find another man would do in that place. If you really get a suitable man in a place, I think it desirable that you should con- tinue him, because he has so much more influence, both sanitary and medically, especially in the sani- tary, because that counts so much, his personal influence. If they have got confidence in him they will listen to him much more than a perfect stranger. They listen to a perfect stranger, but that is all.
54. Chairman: Some mon do better in bush stations, others better in town stations?—Yes, there is no doubt about that. But then there is difficulty on all sides, because if you keep a man in the bush station, as he gets promoted he has to come into the town station, and has to take up a certain amount of administrative work which a bush station does not fit him for.
65. Sir James Fowler: On the question of taking out wives this has often been discussed-and, per haps, children, what is your opinion? At first a man is not allowed to take his wife out, when he goes out, until he receives permission to do so?--No; I look upon it that it will have to come. That is my idea. It is no good putting obstruction in the way to any great extent, because that is one of those things that has to be faced and has to come. I do not say children; I do not believe in children at the present time, but as regards wives I think that is a very difficult thing to interfere with.
56. That was the system in German East Africa.
57. Chairman: Wives now are always allowed to come, are they not, except to certain bush stations? Is not that the practice now?--Well, as far as I know, if a man is not on the list ho has to apply for per mission first of all, and, of course, if it is possible it is given him.
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58. He will get it; it is a question of quartere really --No, it is not altogether a question of quarters; it is a question of the work of the station to which you send him. A man may have to go to a bush station, he may have to travel a fortnight, a month; he may have to make journeys very rapidly. If he has a wife there, with practically no one also on the station, possibly-or possibly another European.......... he is not so keen on going these urgent journeys as he would be by himself. Bo the result is, that if a man wants to bring his wife, you have to see what slation you can give him that will be suitable for him.
59. Sir Harry Verney: On that point; I see in this pamphlet here that officers are not allowed to take
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