64
PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE
¡C.O.
Reference :-
885/25
PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON
ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC-
COPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH-NOT TO
46
MINUTES.
and which were not permanently required by Oversea Governments. This course appeared financially favourable to the Crown, in that the latter would secure the benefit of the prevailing high prices, and the present employment of the vessels need not be interfered with, as they could be sold subject to their continuing under requisition.
Having regard to the views expressed in their Fourth Interim Report, the Com- mittee did not feel that it was open to them to revert to the question of the sale of prize ships transferred from their control without a definite reference from the Treasury, and Mr. Bunbury undertook to ascertain the views of the Treasury on the subject.
4339
THE ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY-FOURTH MEETING of the Committee was held at the Colonial Office on Tuesday, the 15th October, 1918. at 10.30 am.
The following members were present :-
ADMIRAL SIR E. J. W. SLADE, KC.I.E.. K.C.V.O. (Chairman),.
MR. W. J. EVANS, C.B.E., Admiralty.
MR. H. N. BUNBURY, C.B. Treasury.
MR. H. W. MALKIN, C.M.G., Foreign Office.
MB. L. D. WAKELY, India Office.
MR. C. TENNYSON, C.M.G.. Colonial Office.
MR. T. H. HOLT, O.B.E., Crown Agents.
MR. G. A. JONES acted as Secretary.
1. The minutes of the One Hundred and Fifty-third Meeting were confirmed, subject to an addition to item 3.
2. S.V. Terpsichore."-Mr. Holt submitted correspondence showing that, arising out of a request by the Ministry of Shipping, an offer had been made to the charterers (Messrs. Trinder, Anderson, and Company) for this vessel to be moved from Baltimore to New York for loading, but that the charterers had declined the terms proposed and had cancelled the charter. Messrs. Trinder, Anderson, and Company had since put forward an amended offer to load the vessel in New York for New Zealand, and the Committee were of opinion that this employment in British trade, provided suitable terms could be arranged, was preferable to the alternative of a cargo from Baltimore or its vicinity to the River Plate. Mr. Holt was authorized to make the best arrangement possible in the circumstances, but the Committee did not think that the condition that the charterers should under- take to insure the vessel for the voyage from Baltimore to New York need be insisted upon, and the Committee were also willing to give way on the question of the time to count, on notice of readiness at Baltimore being given. The charterers were, however, to be pressed to undertake liability for all port charges at New York.
3. Schooners "Leonor" and Oregon."-Mr. Tennyson mentioned that a telegram had been received from the Governor-General of Canada intimating that the Canadian Government wished to operate these vessels. The Committee saw no objection to this arrangement, but decided to recommend that the reply to the Governor-General should specifically reserve for further discussion the question of the incidence of the following charges:
(a) the expenses already incurred in connexion with the vessels; and (b) any compensation (either by way of transfer of profits or assessed damages) which may be awarded to the owners if the vessels should be ultimately released.
In the Committee's view the liability for the above-mentioned charges should be assumed by the Government which takes the profits from the employment of the vessels.
4. Eighth Interim Report (concerning the utilization of prize vessels for the replacement of requisitioned vessels lost through war risk).—The draft of this report was further amended and finally approved for submission to the Treasury. A copy of the report was to be sent to the Ministry of Shipping in reply to their letter to the Committee:
5.
MINUTES.
47
Ninth Interim Report (concerning the utilization of detained enemy nessels for the replacement of requisitioned vessels lost through war risk).—A A revise draft of this report was discussed and certain alterations decided upon. was to be submitted for consideration at the next meeting.
4346
THE ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY-FIFTH MEETING of the Committee was held at the Colonial Office on Tuesday, the 22nd October, 1918. at 2.30 p.m.
The following members were present :-
2. S.V.
"C
ADMIRAL. SIR E. J. W. SLADE. K.C.I.E., K.C.V.O. (Chairman), MR. W. J. EVANS, C.B.E., Admiralty.
MR. H. N. BUNBURY, C.B.. Treasury.
MR. H. W. MALKIN, C.M.G., Foreign Office.
MR. L. D. WAKEI Y, India Office.
MR. C. TENNYSON. C.M.G., Colonial Office.
MR. T. H. HOLT. O B.E., Crown Agents,
MR. G. A. JONES acted as Secretary.
1. The minutes of the One Hundred and Fifty-fourth Meeting were confirmed. Terpsichore.”—Mr. Holt reported that a new charter had been com- pleted with Messrs. Trinder, Anderson, and Company, for this vessel to load a cargo from New York to New Zealand, the charterers to pay the cost of towage, pilots, boatmen, and ballast for shifting from Baltimore to New York, and to pay The action an additional 5s. per ton freight towards the New York expenses. taken was confirmed.
3. 8.0. "Clevedon."-Mr. Holt mentioned that the Managers of this vessel had inquired whether the average disbursements from Durban to Melbourne should be insured. It was decided that such insurance should not be effected.
4.
Ninth Interim Report (concerning the utilization of detained enemy nessels
for the replacement of requisitioned vessels lost through war risk).—A revised draft
of this report was discussed and amended. The draft as altered was to be printed and brought up for further consideration at the next meeting.
4367
THE ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY-SIXTH MEETING of the Committee was held
at the Colonial Office on Friday, the 1st November, 1918, at 4.30 p.m.
The following members were present :--
C
ADMIRAL SIR E. J. W. SLADE, K.C.I.E., K.C.V.O. (Chairman). MR. W. J. EVANS, C.B.E., Admiralty.
MR. H. W. MALKIN, C.M.G., Foreign Office.
MR. L. D. WAKELY, India Office.
MR. C. TENNYSON, C.M.G., Colonial Office.
MR. G. A. JONES acted as Secretary.
1. The minutes of the One Hundred and Fifty-fifth Meeting were confirmed. 2. 8.0. Clevedon."-The Committee considered a letter from Messrs. William Richards and Son, Average Adjusters, concerning the question of the insurance of the cargo's proportion of the average disbursements. The Committee did not feel able to come to any decision in the matter on the information before them, and the Secretary was instructed to consult with the writer of the letter as to the obliga- tion on the owners of the vessel to effect an insurance which appeared to be solely in the interest of the cargo.
3. Schooners" Leonor" and " Oregon."-The Secretary reported that an error had been discovered in the telegram from the Governor-General of Canada mentioned at the One Hundred and Fifty-fourth Meeting, and it now appeared that the
D
Page 660Page 661
645
PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE
חוז
C.O.
Reference :-
885/25
PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON
ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC-
COPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH-NOT TO
48
MINUTES.
Canadian Government did not wish to operate these vessels. In the circumstances, Mr. Holt had approached the Hudson's Bay Company as to the terms on which they would be prepared to manage these vessels for the account of the Committee, subject to the necessary requisition Orders being obtained from the Prize Court, and it was understood that the Company were in telegraphic communication with their British Columbia house in the matter.
4. Ninth Interim Report (concerning the utilization of detained enemy vessels for the replacement of requisitioned vessels lost through war risk).---The draft of this report was further amended and finally approved for submission to the Treasury.
5. Enemy vessels sentenced to detention. The Secretary was instructed to enter into communication with the authorities which had taken over vessels sentenced to detention by the Prize Court in this country, or by Oversea Courts, with a view to preparing an authentic list showing the vessels which had been lost and the present position of those which remained afloat.
6. General questions. The discussion of the memorandum mentioned in the minutes of the One Hundred and Fiftieth Meeting was resumed. In general. it was decided that, in order to have a basis for discussion, the deliberations of the Committee upon the questions on which they had been asked to report should proceed upon the assumption that the Oversea Governments have no interest in Droits of the Crown or Droits of Admiralty, and this aspect of the matter could be dealt with in the opening part of the report.
4370
(ii) Incidence of cost of printing reports of Prize Court proceedings. -The Committee were of opinion that the section of their report devoted to this question might also deal with the incidence of cost of the preparation of sets of Court Orders which were forwarded to this country.
As the reports or sets of Orders which had been furnished were the outcome of a request by His Majesty's Government, the Committee decided to recommend that the cost of printing (or other copying in the ease of sets of Orders) should, where claims are put forward, be borne by Imperial funds. The sets of Orders would seem to have been asked for directly for the benefit of His Majesty's Government, and the number of copies which the Oversea Governments had been asked to supply of the printed reports suggested that such reports were desired for circulation to other oversea territories in which Prize Courts were established as well as to the interested Departments of His Majesty's Government.
(iii) Preparation of evidence in the United Kingdom for use on behalf of the Crown in Oversea Prize Courts.-It was decided to recommend that expenditure under this head should be borne by Imperial Funds.
THE ONE HUNdred and Fifty-seventhi MeETING of the Committee was held at the Colonial Office on Tuesday, the 12th November, 1918, at 11.30 a.m.
The following members were present :-
ADMIRAL SIR E. J. W. SLADE, K.C.I.E., R.C.V.O. (Chairman). MR. H. W. MALKIN. C:M.G., Foreign Office.
MR. L. D. WAKELY, India Office
MR. C. TENNYSON, C.M.G., Colonial Office.
MR. T. H. HOLT, O.B.E., Crown Agents.
MR. G. A. JONES acted as Secretary.
MR. H. RITCHIE, O.B.E., attended in place of Mr. Malkin for the
first three items, and during part of the fourth item.
1. The minutes of the One Hundred and Fifty-sixth Meeting were confirmed subject to an addition to paragraph 6.
2. 8.0. Clevedon."- -After consideration of a memorandum by Mr. Holt, setting out the extent to which the Committee were interested in the matter of the insurance of the cargo's proportion of the average disbursements, it was decided that such insurance should be effected. Mr. Holt undertook to instruct the managers to take action accordingly.
MINUTES,
49
3. S.D. Bullas." The Secretary reported that a letter had been received from the Ship Licensing Committee (Ministry of Shipping) suggesting that this vaseel should be chartered for a further voyage from Fremantle to South Africa with a cargo of sleepers, and that the Sub-Committee were taking the necessary action accordingly.
4. Schooners "Leonor" and "Oregon."-The Secretary mentioned that he had learnt unofficially from the Department of His Majesty's Procurator-General that the application for the requisition of the "Leonor" had been in the list of cases set down for hearing on the 11th instant, but had been adjourned until the 18th instant; also that difficulty was felt in applying for the requisition of the "Oregon" since the investigation so far made into this case had not disclosed sufficient evidence to enable the required affidavit to be made.
In the event of a definite decision being reached by His Majesty's Procurator- General that an application for the requisition of the "Oregon" would be inad- visable, it was considered that the matter should be reported to the Foreign Office with a view to consideration being given to the possibility of bringing this vessel into service by negotiation.
5. List of detained enemy skips.--The Secretary submitted a list which had been compiled from the Committee records and from information which had been the obtained from the Ministry of Shipping, and was instructed to press Admiralty and the Commonwealth Shipping Representative for replies to the In the meantime the list as prepared, inquiries addressed to them on the matter. with the addition of a section summarizing the position from the tonnage stand- point, was to be set up in print. Copies of the list, when completed by the insertion of authentic information as to the vessels taken over by the Admiralty and the Commonwealth Government, were to be sent to the Departments interested.
6. Seventh Interim Report.-The Secretary mentioned that a letter had been received from the Treasury showing that the Procurator-General had been asked to take appropriate action to give effect to the recommendations in this report, "without prejudice to any more drastic steps that may be taken in connexion with the terms of Peace."
A letter had also been received from the Procurator-General intimating that he would be glad to take the necessary action in the matter if the Committee so desired, but that to enable him to do so he would require a list of the vessels in respect of which Orders for permanent requisition and valuations were to be obtained. A reply had been returned asking, that action in the sense of the report "Diana and the sailing vessels might be taken as a test case in respect of the s.s. “Elfrieda” (now. "Clevedon ") and "Terpsichore," and informing him that a further reply as to the other vessels sentenced to detention in the Prize Court in this country would be sent so soon as the list could be completed.
On consideration of the further list of vessels which should be submitted to the Procurator-General in this connexion, it was decided to inform him that applications for the valuation of vessels should be made in all cases where valuations by the Court upon the basis indicated in the report had not already been made, and that applications for Orders for requisition under Order XXIX., Rule 2, of the Prize Court Rules were desirable in the case of all the vessels in question which were still afloat. In the case of the s.s. "Lucida," which had been so seriously damaged that she might have been regarded as constructively lost, it was decided that, as the proposal to treat her as a total loss had not been accepted, she should be dealt with as a vessel still afloat. The further reply to the Procurator-General was to be delayed until a reply had been received from the Admiralty on the question whether the four vessels understood to have been taken over by them were still afloat.
7. General questions.-The discussion of the memorandum on the subject was continued.
(iv) Expenses incurred in connexion with the examination of vessels released without being made the subject of Prize Court proceedings, including the cost of discharge and custody of cargo therefrom.-The Committee were of opinion that, inasmuch as the orders for the detention and examination of ships or cargoes at oversea ports have emanated from His Majesty's Government, it followed that all expenditure in this con- nexion, when not recovered from the shipowner before clearance is granted