PUBLIC
RECORD OFFICE
6
19
Reference :-
C.O.885
19 PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON
ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC- COPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH-NOT TO
I
198
18 November 1908.]
CROWN AGENTS' ENQUIRY COMMITTEE:
Mr. H. G. HAYTER.
1940. We have the letter, only I want, if possible, to get it on the minutes 7-What I want especially, if 1 cau, to lay before the Committee is that really on the whole it is a retail business on a large scale rather than a wholesale business. The measurement of the packages is absolutely no criterion whatever of what we do, and I should like to give an instance, if you will allow me. These small bales of which I am speaking for the interior of Africa, in order to come within the weight, contain 35 khaki tunics or 50 knickerbockers, and those small bales of which I speak foot out at 10 feet 8 inches superficial measurement. A bale of a hundred blankets foots out at 58 feet. The Jabour an- materials (I am not speaking of manage- ment at all) occupied in packing that 20 suits or 35 junies or 50 knickerbockers, is nearly half as much as it would be for a bale of a hundred blankets; yet the one foots out at 10 feet and the other foots out at 38 feet. So that you will see that to speak of packing per foot is in such a case an impossibility. In the former case our charge works out at 11d. per foot, which is tremendous, while in the other case it works out at 4d., both being in the same class of packing, in canvas and tarpaulin and painted iron hoops.
4941. How often do you get from 50 to 100 bales of the same size to pack-ot very often; the little bales we do, I suppose, get pretty much the same.
1942. But exactly the same all the way through?— Not so very many.
1943. I am thinking of your remark that it is more a retail business than a wholesale business?~What I mean by that is this: we do, of course, pack other packings besides those of the Crown Agents. Take, for example, paper; we pack a considerable amount of paper on account of merchants. That is the most simple form of packing that there is. It comes in to us on the ground floor-it is delivered on the ground floor and we have nothing to do but to tako the reams of paper all of the same size, put them one on top of the other, pump the press, and sew up the seams, and there they are. We have nothing more There is no trouble to do but to take the weight. about sorting or sizing or making up at all. It is a different thing altogether, and it can very well be charged per foot. In point of fact, we do charge per foot for that.
4844. Do you do the case packing as well for the Crown Agents?-Yes, accoutrements and boots-not much saddlery.
4945, (Mr. Bailey.) Do you park the arms?—No; we pack water-bottles, and all that sort of thing- everything that the soldier needs, in point of fact, and the kits.
4948. (Chairman.) May we put this letter of yours to the Crown Agents on our minutes as embracing a complete account of the duties that you perform 1-- Yes, I think so, as near as can be expressed in writing. I should just like to ask you to look at that (handing in a bundle of papers). ↑ admit that it is, perhaps. rather a good case. The quantities there are of 400 or 500 articles that have to be put together and packed for 18 different stations in Nyasaland. They must not only be sorted as to the articles but as to the sizes. We have to work out the percentage of sizes -how much each of those 18 stations should have of each article.
4947. These forms come from the Crown Agenta ?-- Yes. and it is left for us to pick out. You see there are fezes and different things. You will understand. of course, that we have to keep a record of every single article, even if it is a packet of needles, so that at any time we can give an account of when we sent it and where we sent it if any question arises. and questions do arise.
4948. (Mr. Bailey.) Do you keep a sort of ledger, then, of all these things?—Yes, we keep packing books.
4949. Showing everything that comes through your hands, so that years afterwards you could turn it up and say what became of any particular article?—Yes.
4950. (Chairman.) I take it that the Crown Agents do not keep such a record-No.
4951. Do they keep copies of the invoices?--I do not know. They simply give us the orders for what is required, and wo have to carry them out.
4952, (Mr. Bailey.) Do you get these orders when the order is given to a contractor ?--Yes, I suppose so. I suppose they are press copies of the orders Liven to the contractor.
4953. Who looks after the contractor's delivery to you -We report every month if things are not delivered. We give them an account of the state of the orders every month.
4951. (Chairman.) May I just go back and clear that up a little. Do I rightly understand that when the Crown Agents' Office give out an order to the con- tractor they advise you?-Yes, they give us a dupli-
cate.
4935. They give you a duplicate order?—Yes.
4956. That, of course, states when the order ought to be delivered?—Yes.
4957. And you keep them informed if it is not delivered?—Yes, we give them a monthly report of the state of each order and ask for instructions whether we are to ship it in parts or keep it until it is complete.
4958. (Mr. Baily.) Do the Crown Agents take any steps, so far as you are aware, other than those through you to secure the prompt execution of an order-I do not think I can answer that question. So far as I When they get our reports they do. understand their system they have printed notices which they send out to the contractors pointing out that certain goods are overdue, and they ask when they are going to deliver them.
4959. On their own initiative? On their own initiative.
1960. But you practically report in your monthly list those that are overdue?-Yes; we show the posi- tion then of every order.
1961. (Sir Ralph Moor.) Do you on any occasion communicate with the supplier direct?-Yes; it is part of our duty to furnish the supplier-the con- tractor-with a statement that certain goods have been passed and shipped, on which he bases his invoice to the Crown Agents.
4962. But prior to the receipt of the goods you do not communicate with the supplier on any occasion direct? No, we are not allowed to do that.
4963. You leave that entirely in the hands of the Crown Agents?—Yes, on our report.
4964. You mentioned that a proportion of the goods that come to you for packing have to be done up in carriers' loads, that is 56 lb. loads?—Yes.
4965. Is that a large proportion?—I should say a very large proportion of the Crown Agents' orders.
4966. That is for transport in Africa?—Yes.
4967. Then it seems that the goods which come from these suppliers have to bear the cost of carriage to your warehouses 7-Yes.
4968. Then the cost of packing which you make charges for?—Yes.
4969. And then the cost of conveyance to the docks? That is 80.
4970. The object more or less of the system is to ensure good packing and to give the inspector the opportunity of inspecting at your warehouse instead of on the contractor's premises-That is so.
4971. Would the cost, do you think, of the inspector going to the contractor's premises not probably be less than the extra cost entailed by transporting the goods to your warehouse, your packing them there, and then sending them to the docks1-As regards the first item I do not know that they would buy goods The contractor Any cheaper from the contractor.
does not charge them for carrying the goods to our warehouse. Like most manufacturers he sells them delivered.
MINUTES OF EVIDENCE.
Mr. H. G. Hayter.
4972. But he has to make a calculation for that naturally in his tender, and probably his tender for delivering them to you and his tender for delivering them packed to the docks would be about the same. So that the charges made for delivery to your ware- house and in transport to the docks would be extra?— Yes, but the cost of delivery to our warehouse would not be saved, as it would be balanced by the cost of carriage from the contractor to the docks. It should e noticed also that contractors do not deliver to us packed, but in hampers or wrappers which are re turned to them. If they delivered packed to docks, they would have to include export packing in their charge.
4073. Would those charges, do you think, be greater or less than the expense that would be entailed if the inspector went to the contractor's premises and inspected the goods there? That is a question which it is impossible for me to answer. If the goods were all passed first go off when the iu- spector got there and everything was all quite smooth, it would be one thing; but supposing half of them are rejected, which is a very common thing, it would be quite another thing. On one occasion we had 8.000 rejected articles on our premises at one time. The inspector would then have to go back again.
1974. I follow your point there, and I am trying to arrive at what your view would be as to the question of cost-whether this system does not entail additional cost on the Colonies?--I should say not. I should say that the cost of the inspector going about would be about equal to the other, but I can only give it as an opinion, and you will say it is not altogether an unprejudiced opinion. But there is another question which perhaps you will allow me to mention that the manufacturer would not be able to pack the goods. He might pack certain goods, but he would not under- stand the packing of the goods in the services that I mentioned.
4975. 1 quite follow your point there: that you receive, for instance, caps from one manufacturer, tassels from another, buttons from another, and you have to mix them up in a certain proportion of each article in each parcel consigned to different points. That cannot be done by the manufacturer. I quite follow. As regards the invoices for the goods, you do not have them or see them at any time?—No, they go straight from the contractor to the Crown Agents' Office. We know the values, because among other things we have to give the values for the Customs entry to the shipping agents.
4970. How do you receive the values-from the Crown Agents or from the contractors From the Crown Agents. We have to work them out: tunics so much, trousers so much, and so un.
4977. (Chairman.) Then the shipping agents do not make the Customs entry; you do that?-No; they make the Customa entry, but we have to furnish then with the values for the Customs entry.
4978. Has that custom, as it were, grown up, or has it been by definite instructions?-That it is our business to determine the values, do you mean?
4979. It looks to me like two calculations being made. The Crown Agents must know the values?— Yes, they know the values, but they give us the price and we have to work out the values.
4080. (Mr. Bailey.) And you pass the value on to Freeland's ?--Yes.
4981. At what stage do you communicate with Freeland's? When we have packed the goods and they are ready for shipment we send notice to Free- land's, and it is their business to give shipping in- structions.
4982. I see that you receive some goods from fairly distant provincial towns and then in some cases they have to be shipped at Liverpool ?—Yes.
4983. Are goods sent in any considerable quantities to provincial ports in that way?-No, I should think not-not with piece goods,
199
16 November 1908.
4984. What class of goods do you send away then in that way-Clothing; lots of clothing goes by Liverpool.
4985. Have the Crown Agents the exclusive use of a certain portion of your warehouse, or do you simply stow things wherever it is convenient to you?-Does the question refer to the store or to our general pack- ing business?
4986. I refer now to both? We could not work it in one exclusive store. We are at liberty to apportion the room as we please. All we have to do is to see that the goods liave proper storage, and from time to time an officer of the Crown Agents comes down and inspects the store and has some packages opened
they pay surprise visits.
4987. They pay you a sort of standing rent, then, of £400 a year in respect of which you provide them with the necessary accommodation?—Yes, and the management of the store, because we have to watch the store and see that they have what they should have. Sometimes we ask them, and they say that they have not got any money from the Colony and they cannot supply what we really ought to have, but they will as soon as they have got some money.
4988. There is a good deal of correspondence, in- voice making, and clerical work generally bound up in this? Certainly.
4989. I did not gather whether you had any fixed tariff upon which you make your charges?—No, our principle is that we charge the cost of labour and materials with a certain percentage added for the cost of the establishment. I think at the end of our letter we have stated what it was. I do not know of any way in which we could establish a tariff. I have thought of it many times. Perhaps you would like to know how we arrive at that percentage?
4990. (Chairman.) If you please? It would be impossible for us to keep labour and materials divided for each packing account one from the other, and we have worked it in this way, which is the only way we see, though it is very unfair to us in many ways. We have taken out a fixed charge for all our business, the total for materials, the total for wages, working it out for five years, we have taken the total charge to the Crown Agents and everybody else, we have taken a percentage of each of those items and applied that percentage to the Crown Agents, and that is how it works out. I think that is as fair as we can do it except that the expenses of the establish- ment are very much larger in proportion fo the Crown Agents.
4901. What you say is that in connection with the Crown Agents there is so much more detail?—Yes, so many small lots, and the expenses, rent of inspector's rooni and salaries.
4992. (Mr. Bailey.) Am I assuming too much in thinking that it is work of infinite detail which has to be carried on with very much clerical labour and in close contact with the Crown Agents on the one side and the shipping agents on the other?-Yes, it is.
4993. (Chairman.) Is there anything else you wish to stale-In further reference to a question put to me respecting packing by contractors, it is a great point not only that the goods should be thoroughly well packed, but that they should be packed with some view to freight. It was only a few weeks ago that we had four bales of blanketa-very cheap blankets, very common, indeed-for Calcutta, I think they were, and it was thought that everything must be saved and the inspection did not matter. The contractors ordered to send these blankets packed. It so happened that they got wet in the docks, and the ships, as you know, are very particular, they will not receive any- thing that is in the least damaged-they refused to give thesorankets a clear bill of lading, and they were sent to us to be overhauled and re-packed.
We re- packed these four bales, and we found that we saved half a ton on those four bales shipment because they were not pressed properly, besides being so packed
were
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16 November 1908,]
CROWN AGENTS' ENQUIRY COMMITTEE:
Mr H. G. HAYTER.
that if there had been any real wet they would have damaged parcels sent on to them?-Very. A ship been hopelessly damaged.
4991. (Mr. Bailey.) Do you find that the shipping companies are fairly vigilant in looking after
will not give a clear bill of lading if there is the slightest suspicion of damage-for their own protec- tion-unless you give them a guarantee that you will be responsible.
The witness withdrew.
(Adjourned.)
J.
APPENDICES.
APPENDIX I.
ORGANISATION OF THE CROWN AGENTS' OFFICE. (JUNE, 1908.)
3 Crown Agents.
1
Secretary.
8 Heads of Department (Clans I.).
11 Deputy Heads of Department (Class II.).
23 Section Heads (Class III.).
4 Redundant (Class III.).
65 Clerks (Class IV.).
52 Copyists (Class V.).
20 Lady Clerks.
1 Telephone Operator (Lady).
1 Inspector of Clothing.
3 Women Examiners (Stamp Dopartment).
1 Office Keeper.
7 Messengers and Porters.
200
27 Outside Engineering Inspectors (X Department).
L
Secretary
OHGANISATION OF DEPARTMENTS.
SECRETARY'S DEPARTMENT.
Salaries.
P. H. Ezechiel.
- £675
Miscellaneous Branch. (M.)
1 Head of Department (Assistant Secretary) H. Martin
(Class I.)
1 Deputy Head of Department (Class II.) -
2 Section Heads (Class III.) -
5 Clerks (Class IV.)
£525
H. Warde-
. £315
J. A. Blackwood
£185
F. M. Pearson -
£165
E. J. H. Boone -
- £108
H. S. Glossop •
C. C. A. Hartland
£76
£70
C. H. Elliott
£70
E. M. Smith
£70
M. Dubrey
17/- a week 16/- 15/-
3 Copyists (Class V.)
1 Head of Department -
1 Deputy Head of Department 10 Clerks
J. Eckersley
A. Hodkinson
Uorrespondence Branch. (L.)
(Worked entirely by Lady Clerks.)
Section Head (Class III.)
-
2 Clerks (Clas■ IV.)
2 Copyists (Class V.)
·
29