سلبيا
PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE
Reference :-
C.O.885
18 PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON
ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC- COPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH-NOT TO
Fifteenth Day.
14 May 1907.
TO AUSTRALIA
AND NEW
ZEALAND riá CANADA.
(Sir
140
Conference is that it is a goal which you should endeavour to reach to have a service of 18 knots on the Pacific Ocean. If you can accomplish that service of 18 knots on the Pacific Ocean there is no doubt whatever-the MAIL SERVICE thing is mathematical--that you can have between England and Australia a service 25 days, which is far in advance of anything we have at the present time. Of course, it requires some money. This thing cannot be done without we have more expenditure. No line could undertake such a service as that unless it had a liberal subsidy from the Governments concerned. What should be the proportions of the different Governments interested in this, is a question, which, at this moment, I would not be prepared to venture any opinion upon. In the resolution which I have submitted, I simply say that the service ought to be supported in not equal but equitable shares. I am prepared to say that the Government of Canada would have to contribute liberally, perhaps more liberally than the others, because it would have to contribute to both sides, botli the Pacific and the Atlantic. Therefore, Lord Elgin, I submit this resolution to the favourable consideration of the Conference.
Wilfrid Laurier.)
Mr. DEAKIN : My Lord, I am very glad that this proposition has been submitted by the Prime Minister of Canada, and feel sure that the Common- wealth would look upon it with the utmost sympathy, even if it went no further than studying the interests of Canada itself in her Atlantic service, although that is not a matter on which we are entitled to speak. It appears to us manifest that the Canadian position cannot be secured, or its claim as a part of the Empire fully recognised, until it is enabled to meet its formidable competitor to the south with a means of communication equal to that which is supplied to New York. We recognise that, and sympathise with every effort which may be made to give effect to it.
But, of course, the interest of Australia in the Pacific trade might be as great as that of Canada is in getting its direct communication if we can foresee the possibility of obtaining such a service as Sir Wilfrid has referred to, on terms that the Commonwealth could afford to face. It would mean so great a reduction of the time at present occupied that it would be invaluable for a mail service. Our difficulty is that we can scarcely see how with vessels of that speed with the freight charges which they would make, and with the double task of transhipment involved by a railway journey between two lines of mail steamers, it could ever become a cargo line.
Mr. LLOYD GEORGE: That is one of the questions I wanted to put.
Mr. DEAKIN: The goods you send to us are goods of bulk and weight and when our ships face foreign competitors, especially those subsidised, the competition becomes very keen. Certainly, British goods could not afford to pay mail freight, except for small, exceptional, or light parcels. In the same way the raw materials we send to you are even more bulky. The two charges on transhipment puts them out of the category of possible trade. This would, therefore, be for us a fast passenger and mail line of communica- tion, and as such, very valuable. We should welcome it most cordially if it can be financed. The saving of a number of days is a consideration for commercial men who travel or who communicate by post. Consequently, we do not look coldly upon this proposition, though I am bound to say that its economic possibilities on our side are so limited that the subsidies required may be, quite beyond our means. My colleague, in whose Department these questions more immediately are, has made some examination of this proposal.
CHAIRMAN: We should be glad to hear Sir William Lyne.
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Mr. DEAKIN: May I add that at present our connection with this country is by the alternative routes round the Cape or through the Suez Canal? These are our principal routes and must always remain our great cargo routes because there is no transhipment.
Mr. LLOYD GEORGE: And, from the point of view of developing trade, they are much more important.
Mr. DEAKIN: Yes, much more important, except so far as our trade can be assisted by quicker mail and passenger communication. Our principal routes must remain in the other direction. We also are even at this moment endeavouring to obtain a swifter means of communication through the Canal, and swifter transit around the Cape. It will be, I presume, a part of the policy of the British Government, so far as financial considerations permit and business opportunities justify, to encourage an all-round route-the half which goes through America and the other half which goes either round the Cape or through the C'anal. As the Antipodes are reached whether you go east or west, we are interested in the development of this proposal made to you by Sir Wilfrid Laurier. We are also interested in the development of our existing means of communication which go east instead of west, and trust that practicable projects relating to both of them will be submitted by and to His Majesty's Government in due course.
Sir WILLIAM LYNE: My Lord and gentlemen, this route has been
advocated very often in Australia. It is known to us as "the all-red route" being through British territory all the way, and it is very much desired that we should get it, but I am afraid, with my Prime Minister, that the subsidy would have to be very large. I have had the matter submitted to me, and have made calculations, and, as far as I can gather with the stoppages that would be necessary, you could not reach Australia with an 18-knot service under 30 days, that is, if you go viâ New Zealand. That is a consideration, because, of course, New Zealand would be expected and asked to add to the subsidy, and, I think Sir Joseph Ward would like the service to go viâ New Zealand. It is roundly 8,000 knots from Vancouver via New Zealand to Sydney, and the distance was given just now of 6,800 knots if you leave New Zealand out. I look at it from a practical standpoint. I think eight days from Liverpool to Vancouver is a short time. Four days by water from here and four days by rail. I am not a judge of that, but it strikes me as being short. When you leave Vancouver you have to call about four times, I think, before you get to Sydney, and you cannot stop without wasting time or losing time. If you take the distance direct you could do it via New Zealand in 27 days, but if you take the stoppages I think it would take you 30 days. To be of service it should not take much more than three weeks. It is just a question as to how much money would be required to enable a company to do it. The trade is not great at present. I hope it will grow. When the line was first started between Sydney and Vancouver the trade was nothing. That has grown considerably, but not as much as we could wish, and though I am satisfied with the Prime Minister that the Commonwealth Parliament would look favourably at this question, it is all a matter of practical results. As for as I can gather from the resolution proposed by Sir Wilfrid Laurier, I cannot see any harm in it, because it is a matter to be desired and a question to be inquired into. Of course, Canada would receive the greater benefit by getting a fast service from Liverpool, and would be prepared, I suppose, to pay a larger proportion of subsidy. I just wish to put clearly before the Conference, that 30 days at 18 knots is about what it would take to go viâ New Zealand. I had a letter from one of the leading companies
I
49270.
N11
Fifteenth Day.
14 May 1907.
MAIL SERVICE TO AUSTRALIA AND NEW ZEALAND viù CANADA.