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Fifteenth Day.

14 May 1907.

MAIL SERVICE TO AUSTRALIA AND NEW

ZEALAND ria CANADA.

(Sir

William Lyne.)

142

this morning in which they say the last 3 knots would just double the consumption of coal, or very nearly, which is a very great item.

am

Sir JOSEPH WARD: Lord Elgin and gentlemen, I

a little disappointed, I candidly say, at the suggested speed of this line of steamers as outlined by my friend, Sir Wilfrid Laurier. I think it is too slow. If we want to do something really practical in this matter, we want to recognise what the existing condition of matters until a short time ago has been from the standpoint of the furthermost of the British countries affected. There is a route now from New Zealand to London viâ San Francisco by the American route which we used for many years. This suggestion now made is to practically give us about the same time to London viá Canada that we have been enjoying from New Zealand for a long period of years via San Francisco. It has been quite a common matter for mails to reach London from New Zealand in 27 or 28 days and rice versa. If we are, and I am sure we are, practically sincere and anxious to bring into very much closer touch all portions of the outlying colonies, we ought to have some improvement upon what has been in existence for quite a number of years. From the standpoint of New Zealand, although we are quite willing to come into this matter in order to have an effective service, if it is going to be only equal to what we have been getting with comparatively a small subsidy from our country, then from our point of view we are not going to get ahead very far. Sir Wilfrid Laurier is very anxious I know to bring about an improved service, and I want New Zealand to help to the utmost capacity. I attach the greatest importance to speed and efficiency. I went from this country specially in 1895 to Ottawa to interview the then Government in Canada in order to have a mail contract entered into between New Zealand and Canada viâ Vancouver We wanted to to give us that alternative route as against the American one. have the Vancouver one all through the piece, and we entered into the contract at that time for a very suitable service, but unfortunately difficulties with the contractors supervened, and that service was for various reasons withdrawn from New Zealand and transferred to Queensland, and that rendered the service from New Zealand to Canada, and Canada to England impracticable. If we are prepared only to give a moderate subsidy towards obtaining such a service as suggested here, then I admit the possibilities of getting a fast service are very remote. My idea was, and is now, that New Zealand at all events should give an incomparably larger sum than it has ever given for purpose of bringing it closer to England. We have had the authority of Parliament of 40,000l. a year for years past; that is 20,000. each to the one viâ Vancouver, and the one viâ San Francisco. I am prepared to say that our country would be prepared to go to 100,000l. a year without a moment's hesitation in order to get a fast service across the Pacific and through Canada across the Atlantic if it were one of say twenty days or three weeks. This But I want more than 18 knots an hour and I will give my reasons. proposal ought to be divided into two; first there should be an effort made to get a fast service from the English coast to Canada, and that service ought to be a 22-knot service at least.

the

Sir WILFRID LAURIER: 24.

You get Sir JOSEPH WARD: Or for preference a 24-knot service. steamers now running from here to New York which do the journey right through frequently at 21 knots an hour over the whole passage. I went across nearly at 22 knots myself 12 years ago. It is only a question of money whether you can get a speed of the kind. It is admitted and must be conceded from the steamship owners' point of view, that to have a 23-knot or even 24-knot service to Canada with a number of days when the steamer has to provide for coaling and incidental attendance to machinery is quite within

143

Fifteenth Day.

TO AUSTRALIA AND NEW ZEALAND rià CANADA. (Sir Joseph Ward.)

the bounds of possibility, and there is no difficulty provided you like to pay

14 May 1907. enough money for it. Conceive the possibility of that service being carried across at 23 knots an hour. That brings Canada and England within four days of one another. Beyond all doubt we are quite prepared to give Man. SERVICE our proportion for such a service on the Pacific between Canada and New Zealand so as to make the other portion of the link between the Colonies and the Old World. Sir Wilfrid Laurier has said, and I have heard it said by other Canadian gentlemen well-informed too, that it is quite possible to do the Canadian journey across that continent by rail in four days. That makes eight days from England to Vancouver. Now, come to the question of the Pacific. I may be taking too sanguine a view of it, but I base all my remarks upon the one potential factor, that if you want to have this close connection you must pay sufficient money for steamers of large tonnage -passenger and mail steamers only, I should say, except for the purpose of carrying certain cargo between Canada, Australia, and New Zealand. To expect it to be used for a cargo service throughout, from Australia and New Zealand across Canada to England is to expect what is not possible. I do not contemplate it will ever be possible to carry cargo across the Canadian continent and tranship it at both ends.. For ordinary cargo purposes, we ought from a practical, common-sense, business standpoint, to rely for transport, as every country in the world does, on tramps, keeping them quite distinct from a Between Australia and England the great passenger and mail service. proportion of cargo coming from there is carried by cargo steamers-tramps. It is quite true the great liners provide a certain amount of cold storage for perishable products, but they carry only a limited quantity of cargo. If we are going to mix up the two systems, and try, as it were, to call for the moon by expecting to have a cargo service, and a fast passenger service across the Atlantic, across Canada, and the Pacific all in one, we might as It is not possible to well agree to abandon it altogether and let it go. bring about anything practical in that way at all. I apply my remarks, first of all, to providing a large subsidy which is essential, and which I think the countries ought to be prepared to pay if they want to do something practical, Then, next come the possibilities across the Pacific; the distance from Vancouver to Wellington is 6,589 miles, to Auckland it is 279 miles less. It this Vancouver service is carried out I am sure Australia has the sentiment, and we have it too, that we ought to remove every element of parochialism of every possible kind, and should establish a If this service, as service which is the swiftest and best for the whole of us. is indicated here, is to go to Sydney first, and then on to New Zealand from say that very England, we would not give anything whatever to it. I frankly, because that would be putting the cart before the horse. The nearest country from Vancouver is New Zealand, and the first touched at ought to be the country which is nearest, and then it should pass on to the other country, which is to have the first turn coming backwards from be the first place to Australia to Vancouver, and which would receive benefits of that kind. It should only touch at New Zealand, Sydney remaining the terminal port, and getting all the benefits of the terminal business, and the employment of labour supplying provisions attendant upon it. If you want this service to be a success, the only country the boats should touch first is the country en route either going or coming. I want to discuss the possibilities from a New Zealand point of view, because we have an alternative, and that alternative I should reluctantly carry out on behalf of our country, that is, to put our money down and run a servicè viâ San Francisco. Unless the British Government, Canada, and Australia recognise the position in which New Zealand is, that we are a growing country and an important country, though a smaller country than some of the others, we cannot afford as a developing country and a progressing country to be kept at a great distance from England, owing to our circumstances