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Fourteenth Day,
9 May 1907.
IMPERIAL. SERTAX ON
FOREIGN
IMPORTS.
(Mr.
Lloyd George.)
may say so.
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of an idea what the money is to go to but simply saying, "We are to pool it, " and until we can find something to spend it on, let it roll up "-if that is a scheme for a great commercial Empire, I think it is a scheme pour rire, if 1 It is not as if there was a defiuite plan, which is exactly what Mr. Asquith has asked for and very properly, asked for. He said he was prepared to recommend the Treasury to find money. I go beyond that and say I am perfectly willing for my part, after consultation with the Chairman and my colleagues, to subscribe to the suggestion made by Sir Joseph Ward, and I go further than that and say we shall be in favour of some systematic consultation between the representatives of the Empire as to the best meaus We must have a plan before for promoting the objects you have in view. we spend money. We are spending enormous sums of money in the Empire now, and we really want to know upon what we are going to spend these further sums.
We must not, first of all, resolve to spend, and then go fishing for a scheme somewhere from here to Australia. Let us, first of all, find our plan. I would not mind altering Mr. Deakin's resolution in some way just to show our bona fides.
Mr. DEAKIN: You are now saying more than you did before.
Mr. LLOYD GEORGE: Really, it was very difficult in language that would pass the chair to express my view of this 4,500,000l. against the 600,0001.
Mr. DEAKIN: It was, if I may so, because you could not have listened to my proposal. I did not dwell on the 4,500,0001. I said over and over again that we can substitute anything-half per cent. or anything else. It was insisted from the first that the amount named was adopted as a mere convenience.
Mr. LLOYD GEORGE; It is the very thing we have to dwell upĉn. Mr. DEAKIN: Certainly, when it is actually proposed, but at this stage it is a proper thing to notice and pass by, until the principle has been settled, and detail is taken in hand.
Mr. LLOYD GEORGE: Imperial defence is costing us something like 60,000,000l. at the present moment.
You
Mr. DEAKIN In moving this motion, I said over and over again: "As regards this particular amount, I have taken it because I find it suggested "in a scheme submitted by Sir George Sydenham Clarke." I said expressly I do not attach any special importance to that particular proportion. are perfectly justified in saying all you did, to the effect that this particular amount will not do, and thus dismissing it; I am not in any way concerned because that is not the cardinal point.
Mr. LLOYD GEORGE: The cardinal point is not to raise the revenue first and find a plan afterwards.
Mr. DEAKIN: That is quite another issue; you are giving us help now. You are beginning to meet ny proposal. Now you state you are prepared to accept a regular and systematic discussion of business proposals.
Mr. LLOYD GEORGE: Systematic consultation-stronger still.
Mr. DEAKIN: In saying that, you are coming to a positive proposal, which is just what I want. You may tear my resolution to rags and do what you please with its proportions and details if you accept the principle of united action in some definite shape.
Mr. LLOYD GEORGE: I would suggest the following resolution "This Conference recommends that in order to develop trade, commerce,
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"the means of communication, and those of transport within the Empire. Fourteenth Day.
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it is desirable that some means should be devised for systematic consultation
between the members of various parts of the Empire for the purpose of considering co-operative projects for the general purpose of fostering the industrial forces of the Empire, so as to promote its growth and unity." These ends have to be considered by expert business men, and afterwards we shall come in to find the means.
It may not come Mr. DEAKIN: That is a most distinct advance. immediately to anything because it is only a general provision, but I quite feel that it is not fair to press the President of the Board of Trade for anything expressed in pounds, shillings, and pence until definite schemes are propounded.
Mr. LLOYD GEORGE; You have no schemes. Schemes would have to be considered very carefully. So far as I am concerned, I have been seeing a good many shipowners, and I have realised what great practical difficulties there are which must be overcome, and you could not formulate a scheme in It would take a the course of the few days that are at our disposal now. considerable time for consultation with all classes of people interested in our oversea trade.
Mr. DEAKIN I entirely agree. Be sure that there will be no sparsity of projects; we are full of them. People are continually making proposals for improvement of communications, and one thing and another.
Mr. LLOYD GEORGE: One thing you have to do is to persuade Australia to make a harbour where ships of a certain size can go in. Your depth of water is only 28 feet draught. These huge ships will not enter. That is one "That is not for us; it is point a large shipowner has put to me, and I said, for Australia."
Mr. DEAKIN : You are quite right. It is for us. Speaking from memory he is a little out of date. They are blasting in Port Phillip, and have been for the last 12 months, rocks to a depth of 30 feet-I think 32 to 35 fect in the entrance to Melbourne. In Sydney harbour, as I understand, the entrance is deep enough already.
Mr. LLOYD GEORGE: But you cannot get alongside with a ship over 28 feet.
CHAIRMAN: We need not have particulars.
Mr. LLOYD GEORGE: I only give it as an illustration.
Mr. DEAKIN: I have no possible objection to any detailed criticism of any possibilities, except to say that I did not put any proposal forward of this vague character. But my suggestions are now being met in the light It is excellent to provide I think they ought to have been net at first. for expert consultation periodically. The only thing is, cannot we go further before we part? I do not know whether a question of this sort will come before the new secretariat or whatever it is, or go to the Board of Trade. Are matters of practical business, propositions which are made from either one part or the other of the Empire, to go through the secretariat or to the Board of Trade or to whom?
CHAIRMAN: May I say that I undertook at the beginning of this Conference to endeavour to organise a secretariat? I have not had time since the Conference met, and I think you must really leave me some scope.
9 May 1907.
IMPERIAL SURTAX ON FOREIGN IMPORTS.
(Mr.
Lloyd George')
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