CO885-(16-18) — Page 759

PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE

Reference :-

C.O.885

18 PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON

ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC- COPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH-NOT TO

Fourteenth Day.

9 May 1907.

IMPERIAL SURTAX ON

FOREIGN IMPORTS.

96

Mr. DEAKIN: This is not a question of organisation.

CHAIRMAN: It is really a question of organisation as to what part of the business is to come through this secretariat in this office, or what part may go through the Board of Trade. I have undertaken the organisation of

the secretariat.

Mr. DEAKIN: I do not think that is an answer.

Mr. WINSTON CHURCHILL: Has not this Resolution now proposed already been passed by the Conference on the day we discussed the organisation of the Conference-to have conferences on matters of common interest every four years, and subsidiary conferences held as often as necessary between any parties interested in inter-Imperial or inter-Colonial questions? In what way does this Resolution advance upon any proposal which the Conference has already decided?

Sir WILFRID LAURIER: I would not press your motion to-day, but have something more concrete than that. With regard to the motion made by Mr. Deakin with all due respect to the earnestness with which he has pressed it, it seems to me an absolute departure from constitutional government. If there is anything which is true in constitutional British Government it is this that you do not provide money in advance for anything. Your proposal is to create a general fund and then you find how you are to apply it afterwards. If there is an object to be served, or work to be done, or something of the kind which requires money, then we find the money; but your scheme proposes that we should find the money in advance. That seems to me an absolute departure from constitutional government. Where can you find a precedent for it? Where is it consistent? Call it a duty or a tax, after all it is money taken out of the people's pocket, and you do it for a vague indefinite object. That is absolutely contrary to consti- tutional government. If there is anything true, it is that you do not take money from the people except for a special object, and I object to your motion on this ground. I am not quite satisfied with the motion of Mr. Lloyd George as it is very indeterminate, and commits us to nothing. I hope before wo separate we can find an actual scheme on which we can ask the contribution of the British Government, and all or some of the Governments here represented some big scheme of communication amongst ourselves. This is what you

have in mind, yourself, Mr. Deakin. Therefore, I think you should not propose the motion to-day.

Mr. DEAKIN: I take the proposed resolution of the President of the Board of Trade as being drafted with the idea that instead of allowing this matter to drop we should pass something and show that something progres- sive is really intended. I quite agree that was the motive, and appreciate it; but at the same time it is open to the criticism which I myself was leading up to, that such a plan involves consideration of the secretariat and the nature of the secretariat, and of subsidiary Conferences. Consequently I do not press for passing a resolution at all. What I want to get if I can before we leave, is a decision of this Conference on the question: Is it not possible to do something more in the future than we have ever done, in the way of providing for practical business-like proposals making for Imperial co-operation and unity of action being dealt with in a business-like way? Mr. Lloyd George says very properly that, according to his revision of my resolution, what may be termed a special meeting or subsidiary Conference of experts will enable us to deal with them. That is quite true and helpful. Is that the furthest limit to which we can go? So far from thinking myself the person specially endowed with ideas on this subject, I broached it in order to obtain tho assistance of others, in the expectation that they would provide out of their

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greater experience more than I am able to suggest at the present time. I am tied to nothing. Let us do something definite so that when we leave the Conference, we can say with some confidence: "We have not done the things we wanted, but we have at least made the way casier in future for any "of those practical projects to be dealt with immediately without the delay which now invariably accompanies the correspondence in making even an approach to joint action by our governments.'

K

Mr. WINSTON CHURCHILL: How is not that met by the fourth clause of the instrument governing the Imperial Conference, which provides that upon subjects which cannot be conveniently postponed a new Conference of representatives shall be held between Governments concerned. Does not that cover it?

Mr. DEAKIN: It could cover it, but has not been expressly held to apply before.

CHAIRMAN: That is the intention of it.

Mr. DEAKIN : That is the intention. It leaves them irregular, and not as I wished regular and constantly in operation. Your statement shows you are prepared to adopt something.

Mr. LLOYD GEORGE: And there is the readiness of the Imperial Government to put it into black and white. Is it not advantageous to have what Mr. Churchill has just said applied to this particular subject? That is the use of the particular resolution which I proposed.

Mr. WINSTON CHURCHILL: That is putting it in black and white twice over.

Mr. DEAKIN: No, the first a general resolution.

Mr. LLOYD GEORGE: Yes, about the organisation of this subsidiary Conference. This is simply a suggestion that this would be a proper subject to be dealt with at the subsidiary Conference.

Mr, DEAKIN: The President of the Board of Trade pointed out what he was doing in reference to commercial intelligence within the Empire, and the new efforts he is going to make to extend the system. That seems on right lines, and admirable. Now we have attention called to the fact that the machinery of subsidiary Conferences is to be applied in the same direction; that is excellent, too. But I want this thing not to be talked out here, but defined and understood. When we return and are asked what we have done with regard to practical co-operation among our governments in the future, we can only point to the Consular Service within the Empire as well as without it, with a provision for subsidiary Conferences. I thought subsidiary Conferences on these practical matters was always possible. I want to add to that. Let us make our collection of scalps as numerous as we can, showing we have met these difficulties, and disposed of them.

Mr. LLOYD GEORGE: I understand that Sir Wilfrid Laurier proposes before the Conference separates to propose a practical scheme.

Sir WILFRID LAURIER: I hope so.

Mr. LLOYD GEORGE: I hope you will let us have it in time to give it proper consideration.

Dr. JAMESON: That is no reason why we should not pass this general resolution.

Sir WILFRID LAURIER: I desire to let it stand over until we have something more.

1 49446.

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Fourteenth Day.

9 May 1907.

IMPERIAL SCRTAX ON FOREIGN

IMPORTS.

(Mr. Deukin.)

PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE

Reference :-

C.O.885

18 PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON

ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC- COPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH-NOT TO

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ore than I am able to suggest at the present time. I am us do something definite so that when we leave the y with some confidence: “We have not done the things have at least made the way casier in future for any rojects to be dealt with immediately without the delay bly accompanies the correspondence in making even it action by our governments.'

CHURCHILL: How is not that met by the fourth eut governing the Imperial Conference, which provides hich cannot be conveniently postponed a new Conference ill be held between Governments concerned. Does not

It could cover it, but has not been expressly held to apply

What is the intention of it.

That is the intention. It leaves them irregular, and not and constantly in operation. Your statement shows you t something.

EORGE: And there is the readiness of the Imperial t into black and white. Is it not advantageous to have nas just said applied to this particular subject? That is ular resolution which I proposed.

: CHURCHILL: That

S

putting it in black and white

No, the first a general resolution.

EORGE: Yes, about the organisation of this subsidiary

simply a suggestion that this would be à proper subject

he subsidiary Conference.

: The President of the Board of Trade pointed out what he nce to commercial intelligence within the Empire, and

).

is going to make to extend the system. That seems on nirable. Now we have attention called to the fact that the diary Conferences is to be applied in the same direction; But I want this thing not to be talked out here, but tool. When we return and are asked what we have done tical co-operation among our governments in the future, t to the Consular Service within the Empire as well as rovision for subsidiary Conferences. I thought subsidiary se practical matters was always possible. I want to add ike our collection of scalps as numerous as we can, showing

difficulties, and disposed of them.

GEORGE: I understand that Sir Wilfrid Laurier proposes nce separates to propose a practical scheme.

> LAURIER: I hope so.

GEORGE: I hope you will let us have it in time to give it

Jn.

N: That is no reason why we should not pass this general

> LAURIER: I desire to let it stand over until we have

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Fourteenth Day, 9 May 1907.

IMPERIAL SURTAX ON FOREIGN IMPORTS. (Mr. Deakin.)