PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE
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C.O.885
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Fourteenth Day.
9 May 1907.
IMPERIAL
SURTAX ON FOREIGN
IMPORTS.
(Sir
Joseph Ward.)
90
something done; but I see difficulties from the point of view of New Zealand, and I would suggest to Mr. Deakin, as we have had unanimity from the Colonies so far, that having clicted a discussion on this matter it would be better not to take a vote. I do not want to vote against him; but from my knowledge of the way a surtax has operated in New Zealand and the uncertainty of my colleagues' views upon the matter as well as of the New Zealand Parliament I am not prepared to act in regard to a proposal which has a great underlying principle in it, that is this overriding system of taxation, I would not myself feel justified in supporting it. I am sorry I have to dissent from Mr. Deakin in this matter, but it is inevitable.
Dr. JAMESON: Lord Elgin and gentlemen, I am not going to dissent from Mr. Deakin. I am fully in sympathy with everything he has said here on the subject; but at the same time it is quite true, as Sir Wilfrid Laurier said, this is too hazy and too complicated. I take it what Mr. Deakin had in his mind was to try to take some practical step forward.
Mr. DEAKIN: Yes. If not this, what is the alternative?
Dr. JAMESON: We listened with the greatest pleasure to the extremely sympathetic speech from Mr. Lloyd George when he had to emphasise what the Chancellor of the Exchequer had already told us, that our pet idea must be abandoned, but that there were all kinds of subsidiary matters that would help in the same direction. What I was waiting for was some practicable scheme about the subsidiary matters, and still more for some practical suggestion as to the amount of money which was going to be put up to carry out the practical schemes, and no doubt Mr. Deakin having running in his mind these two practical propositions, brought this forward as a possible scheme for getting the money to do some of these subsidiary things which are proposed, and which we do not believe, but know, will help towards our ideas.
Mr. LLOYD GEORGE: You must have a scheme before you consider the money part of it.
Dr. JAMESON: It is a very useful thing to have a fund to draw upon for any scheme.
Mr. WINSTON CHURCHILL: Having a fund and then looking for objects to spend it on was pithily described the other day as finding a biscuit in the street and then buying a dog to give it to.
Dr. JAMESON: As a matter of fact, there is a general scheme which will cost money, and I believe I heard Mr. Lloyd George say that, with a view to fostering trade within the Empire, he had already been to the Chancellor of the Exchequer to get money for the appointment of commercial experts.
Mr. LLOYD GEORGE: I have been promised it since.
Dr. JAMESON: It requires money, but you said we will not stop there; we will do other things which will require money.
Mr. LLOYD GEORGE: I had my scheme first, and then I got my
money.
91
your
Dr. JAMESON: I hope you have
Mr. Deakin is now schieme now.
I hope it was not a mere going to suggest a way to you to get the money. general statement. We expect to get something more on the lines suggested by Sir Joseph Ward--subsidies to freights on tramp steamers, and so on. This is merely a suggestion from Mr. Deakin not fixing himself to i per cent. or to 10 per cent, or a decimal percentage at all, but a suggestion by which the fighting forces might be provided.
I am really quite in accord with the general principle; but it is possible, if Sir Joseph Ward's suggestion is adopted by the Government, and that half a million is going to be put up for this purpose by the Government, and we all round the table put our proportion, it might be unnecessary to pass this, and I daresay Mr. Deakin would not then put it to the vote at all.
Mr. F. R. MOOR: Lord Elgin and gentlemen, we have been considerably edified by the sympathy that has been extended to us by the Imperial Govern- ment, and the promise of what we may expect in the furtherance of our Imperial ideas. But I think it would be greatly to our advantage in bringing about something in the shape of some fruit as regards this Conference, if the Imperial Government would be a little more candid and let us know, in some practical way, the steps they would take to bring about the object we all have in view. I am loth to vote against a proposition of this sort, which has at any rate a practical ring about it with respect to providing a common fund; but when the Government meets us and tells us they have a great deal of sympathy for what we are trying to do, and do not tell us they have
I think anything behind which they may suggest before we break up, would be in the interest of all if they would give us some indication, in a practical way, of what they do propose or would be prepared to consider. We lave tried in various ways, but we have been met by refusal, certainly, again We are here I repeat, in a very sympathetic way. But that does not help us. for business and to promote our common interests, and we do want something tangible, if possible, to take back to our Colonies. I do hope before this resolution is put that Mr. Lloyd George will indicate some way.
Mr. LLOYD GEORGE: What have you proposed, except something that would involve a change in our fiscal system? What practical proposals have you made that we have refused?
Mr. F. R. MOOR: am not arguing that point, but we have brought forward proposals that have not been acceptable to the Home Government, and the Government have, at the same time, told us they are very kindly disposed towards us, and that in some way they would be only too glad to meet us if it fell in with the views of the Imperial Government. Will the Imperial Government tell us how, in some practical way, we can decide on some common resolution?
Mr. LLOYD GEORGE: I thought we had done so.
I:
Sir ROBERT BOND): Lord Elgin, and gentlemen, I am sorry I cannot support the resolution proposed by Mr. Deakin. The position of the Colony represent in respect to imports and exports is entirely different from that of any other Colony in the Empire. For instance, our exports to the United Kingdom only amount to 13 per cent. of our total; whereas these of Cape Colony amount to 95 per cent., New Zealand 78, Australia 70, Natal 52, British Guiana 52, and Canada 52. Our principal trade is with foreign countries. About 70 per cent, of our exports go to the Mediterranean, and to South America. I might say, further, that our average tariff taxation
Fourteenth Day.
9 May 1907.
IMPERIAL SURTAX ON FOREIGN IMPORTS.
J