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Fourteenth Day.

9 May 1907.

IMPERIAL

SERTAX ON FOREIGN IMPORTS.

(Sir

88

I come now to the second part. You want to create an Imperial fund. If Mr. Deakin permits me with all deference to say so this is a very hazy proposition to create a general fund for certain purposes, indefinite, undeter- mined, and as to which we shall have to cudgel our brains as to how to employ the money thus raised. I prefer to come directly to the point. There are Imperial projects of magnitude which we can consider. Câbles are one; improvement in navigation is another. If we agree on this particular point Wilfrid Laurier.) before we separate that it would be an advantage to create more cables and add to the cables we have already or extend the Imperial cable we have. For my part, I am quite ready to consider the proposition that each of those interested at all events perhaps South Africa or other parts would not be --should agree to contribute a certain amount. Or if you have a scheme, for instance, for improving navigation and communication between all parts of the British Empire, a scheme which seems to me most worthy of consideration, it would be a stronger bond of union at the present time than anything we could devise. If we had a rapid up-to-date line of communication by which we combined the whole of the British Empire here represented, it would do more towards unity than anything you can devise. For anything of that sort I am prepared to say--and the people of Canada will be ready I ain sure to say so too-that we will put our hands into our pockets for the promotion of such an object, as would Australia also, and New Zealand I believe. Therefore I say it is better to come directly to an issue, and take the cable issue, say, this year, another issue next year, and so on. But I cannot agree with the proposal of Mr. Deakin, and I give my view in all frankness on this

matter.

Sir JOSEPH WARD: Lord Elgin, and gentlemen, my sympathies are entirely in the direction Mr. Deakin is urging, and I want, with him, to do everything in my power to assist in the bringing about of preferential trade within the Empire, because-and I do not want to go over the same ground again I think it is in the best interests of the Empire. The more I think of it, the more I do not like the idea of a surtax, for more than one reason. Why? Under this proposition, if 1 per cent. surtax were levied, it would bring from New Zealand 20,0001. a year. From the point of view of assisting in bringing New Zealand into closer union with the Old Country, in my view, 20,000. a year is a mere drop in the bucket, and quite inadequate, so instead of 1 per cent, as our contribution we would probably have to have 5 per cent. or 24 per cent. to produce something greater, whether that be 50,0001., 60,0001, 70,000L, or perhaps 100,000l. a year, to do what we require to do in connection with the important matter of shipping connection alone Once I, as repre- in order to bring our country closer to the Old World. senting New Zealand, commit myself to this proposition of Mr. Hofmeyr's, or rather Mr. Deakin's altered one, I am going to embark in an unknown future undertaking as far as New Zealand goes, with the undoubted sequence to this proposal of a higher rate than 1 per cent. being imposed upon our country. I am not prepared at present to do that. In New Zealand, we have had some experience of surtaxes. I recall right back in my own carly history in Parliament in our own country the fact that the Government of that time imposed a 24 per cent, overriding duty upon all articles imported into the country, dutiable and free, for the purpose of assisting the revenue generally. It was a most disliked tax. Though there was not universal approval given to it, and no departure from the principle of those who held Free Trade views, it was looked upon probably as an expedient and at the time necessary thing to do, but it had not been in operation twelve months when all sides were very strongly opposed to it, and the Government of the day had to take the tax off. It was one of the first things the Government of which I was a member then, and am now, had to remove. Having supported the putting into operation of that surtax in New Zealand, it was

89

9 May 1907.

IMPERIAL SCRTAX ON FOREIGN IMPORT.

(Sir

Joseph Ward.)

found to be exceedingly unpopular amongst the mercantile and farming world Fourteenth Day. and amongst all classes in our country, and we had to take it off. I take these figures given by Mr. Lloyd George for the purpose of my argument. No doubt they are perfectly correct; 20,0001. a year for a contribution to a fast mail service from New Zealand to London would be quite inadequate, and instead of 1 per cent. I am perfectly certain our Colony would have to mako provision for a very much larger charge. I am not discussing the principle, but the working of it out from the point of view of what I can foresce would arise in New Zealand. Another thing why I do not like it- and this is the point which, since it was mentioned yesterday, has been passing through my mind from time to time, We have already in New Zealand imposed a higher duty against foreign importations than against British on certain articles, ranging from 20 per cent., and some articles are admitted free from England with a duty put against things from foreign countries on our free list independent of that. We are anxious to turn the current of foreign trade to Great Britain and the Colomes. session of Parliament, to which I am going back, we are submitting the revision of our customs tariff, and this policy will underlie our tariff to some extent. If we succeed in stopping the importation of goods from foreign countries who give us nothing in return for what we do now in the way of remission of duties, by treaties, or anything else, upon whom are we going to levy our 1 per cent. or whatever we decide to put on in the way of a surtax? We are going to put it every time against the Britisher. The object Mr. Deakin has in view I am in sympathy with, and would sincerely like to be able to support him in this proposal, but it would, as it occurs to me, have an injurious effect, and as it struck me when first I heard the proposal here I really do think it would tell against us in the advocacy of preferential trade with different portions of the British possessions in the future.

In this next

I think we ought to have something definite if possible before we leave this Conference upon the important matters of inter-communication and other subjects I referred to, and I should like to hear the British Government say they are prepared to provide, say half a million of money as a contribution towards these matters, the Colonies in turn coming in with a fair proportion, the whole amount not to be put up unless we gave our fair proportion towards bringing about an Imperial and Colonial mail With all deference to those service, improved cable service, and so on. responsible for the outward traffic from England through the Suez Canal to the Colonies, I suggest it would be a good thing to have a bounty system or something of the kind, or a percentage of contribution to the steamers carrying cargoes. I am not suggesting anything in the matter of passengers because I think the practical side of getting our products through the Suez Canal is altogether of greater importance than anything else we can suggest. If we could give a tonnage contribution of some kind so as to make it possible for these tramp steamers to work with Australia and New Zealand through that canal--a contribution by way of bounty if you like -I think would be a very fine thing to do. If the British Government would say that in order to ensure a material reduction in the cost of cabling to Australia and New Zealand they would divert all their traffic to the Pacific cable for a period, provided it was done at a certain rate, and if the other companies would come down to the same rate, a division of the business could be given from the whole of us, and if a guarantee against loss to the shareholders in the Eastern Cable Company were given by the respective Governments, and of course to the Pacific Cable Company, who have guaranteed the money for the Pacific cable, you would be in a position to get low rates and be able to do an incalculable amount of good.

I know Mr. Deakin's sincerity and earnestness in trying to bring about Imperial unity in the way he has advocated, and l'ani anxious to see

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