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Thirteenth Day, 8 May 1907.
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recognise what Canada has been doing in regard to its defence. As I mentioned the last time we discussed this question at the Conference, I think the situation of Canada has not been properly represented. I am very glad Naval Defence, to see Lord Tweedmouth has actually acknowledged and recognised that we (Mr. Brodeur) have been doing a great deal, and are still doing a great deal, by taking over
the Naval Stations at Esquimault and Halifax.
There was a discussion in previous years to the effect that we should contribute something directly to the British Navy. I may say with regard to that, there is only one mind in Canada on that question, and if it was necessary I should be able to quote the remarks made lately in an article published by Sir Charles Tupper, who is certainly one of the men best qualified to speak in Canada, upon the question. I think, perhaps, I might mention what he said in regard to that. He said: "It is known that from "the outset
have felt the interests of Canada and the true interests of "the Empire to be opposed to the demand for Colonial contributions to "the Imperial Navy," and "I maintain that Canada has discharged that duty in the manner most conducive to Imperial interests." So it shows that both sides of politics in Canada agree with the policy which has been going on for some years there. He adds, also, in that article, that “Canada protects her fisheries by her own cruisers, and when the Imperial Government expressed a wish to be relieved of the expense of maintaining "the strategic points at the harbours of Halifax and Esquimalt the Canadian "Government at once relieved them of that large expenditure, amounting "to 185,000l. per annum.' Negotiations are now going on for taking over the Naval stations there. I do not know exactly what will be the amount by which the Admiralty will be relieved, but I think it is a somewhat large
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amount.
"
Since the matter has been brought before this Conference I may say that Parliament has voted a large sum of money for the purpose of purchasing another cruiser and putting that cruiser on the Pacific coast for the protection of our fisheries.
We are very glad to see that Lord Tweedmouth has recognised that in this matter it should be left almost entirely to the Colonies. I may say, in conclusion, that we will be very glad to work in co-operation with the Imperial autho- rities, and under the advice of an Imperial officer, so far as it is consistent with self-government.
Sir ROBERT BOND: I have nothing to add to what I have already said in the matter.
Sir WILLIAM LYNE: I would like to ask Lord Tweedmouth a question in connection with the Australian proposals. It is not intended, I presume, to remove the present squadron, or any large proportion of that squadron, until, if we can make a new arrangement, our coastal defence is fairly complete.
Lord TWEEDMOUTII: There is no intention of moving the squadron as it at present exists until a new arrangement is arrived at. I think the discussion that has taken place here to-day shows very clearly what was said by Mr. Moor, that it is impossible to come to any final decision with regard to these proposals we have been talking about, and on which, I think, we are very largely agreed, until reference is actually made to the Parliaments of the various Colonies, because they must decide in the first instance as to whether they will take the line of going on with the subsidy, or supplement. the subsidy by certain local defence arrangements, or adopt a system of local defence instead of the subsidy altogether,
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Sir Joseph Ward asked what is the opinion of the Admiralty with regard Thirteenth Day.
8 May 1907. to the comparative merits of submarine local defence, and subsidy. That,
(Lord
I think, is a question upon which we at the Admiralty cannot pretend to adjudicate. We say, if the Colonies decide on a system of local defence, we NAVAL DEFENCE. think submarines would be the most useful way of beginning it, and that Colonies would find that a submarine flotilla would be the best way from their point Tweedmouth.) of view and from a strategical point of view of defending the coast, to begin with, at any rate. They might afterwards develop the destroyer, and so forth; but to begin with the submarine would be the best plan that could be adopted in everybody's interests.
We do not refuse the subsidy plan, and I do not think it would come well from us to say that we insist that the subsidies should be dropped. That, I think, is a matter for the Colonies themselves. So far as we are concerned, the subsidy is a very convenient way of receiving help from the Colonies; but we quite recognise that it is a question for the Colonies themselves as to how far it is to be subsidy and how far it is to be local defence. What we really desire is that we should have the cordial help of the Colonies, and that in, the most effective way in the first place, and in the second place, in a way most acceptable to the Colonies.
Dr. SMARTT: So that if the Colonies were prepared to accept a scheme which met with the approval of the Admiralty, to improve their local defence in such manner as not alone would it assist them but also the British Navy in time of emergency, they would have the approval of the Admiralty to devoting the subsidies that they now pay to the general fund, to this purpose, and still more have the approval of the Admiralty if they increased the amount of money to be devoted to those services. So long as we feel assured that that is the desire of the Admiralty, I am extremely anxious, so far as South Africa is concerned, to move forward in that direction.
Lord TWEEDMOUTH: We shall be willing to take in kind what has been paid in the past in hard cash.
Dr. SMARTT: And as times improve, we should be prepared to increase the amount devoted to these services. That is why I was anxious to know whether, so far as the Cape and Natal are concerned, the Admiralty would give us some suggestions as to the cost of building up either the submarines or destroyers-that is, the cost of the ship on the one hand, and the cost of the men on the other. We understand, in the case of a submarine, that we could not supplement her crew by the volunteers, because in that case you want really trained experts.
Lord TWEEDMOUTH!: I have here a statement which I had made out for Sir Joseph Ward with regard to the cost of a submarine. Will you take that copy and share it with Mr. Moor? I gave a copy to Mr. Deakin. That gives, I think, a very good and short summary of what the cost of a submarine would be. You also would like something on the same lines as to a destroyer?
Dr. SMARTT: Yes. I would like even further than that some small scheme prepared by the Admiralty to put before the Cape and say: This is a scheme you can work up to whenever you can find the money. I want it as an incentive to the people to see what they are going to work up to, and to allow them to know what it will cost them.
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